Author Topic: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)  (Read 295 times)

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Offline murataydin

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True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« on: July 02, 2020, 04:03:25 PM »
Selam aleyküm,
READ THIS POST ENTIRELY BEFORE TRYING TO CONTRADICT THE QU'RAN BY BRINGING ANOTHER EXPLANATION TO DHUL-QARNAYN'S STORY !
This post will reveal that the Qu'ran talks about black hole, dark nebulas and binary stellar systems !!

Say, "This is my way; I invite to Allah with insight, I and those who follow me. And exalted is Allah ; and I am not of those who associate others with Him." (12:108)
And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned(18:36)
The Qu'ran calls to reason, to intelligence, to insight, yet Muslims still believe that Ya'Juj Ma'Juj are stuck behind a gigantic iron wall... Today, I write to you about one of the biggest misunderstandings of the Qu'ran, for the story of Dhul-Qarnayn never happened on Earth. This story has been used to attack the Qu'ran for it describe the sun setting in a murky spring, but this is actually a scientific miracle unknown by many. If you think that Gog/Magog are buried underground or behind a wall, that the Sun sets in a murky spring or that Dhul-Qarnayn is Alexander the Great or Cyrus II: read this.
This post will be long to read, but please, read it, it's very important, it will blow your mind and confirm that the Qu'ran is truly the Word of God. All of the stuff I will say here comes from a Turkish muslim author named Iskender Türe who wrote a book (Zülkarneyn-Kur'an'da Uzaya Seyahati Anlatılan Insan ; Dhul-Qarnayn - The Space Traveler of the Quran) and my own researches. This content is know by many Turks but unfortunately, not so much to other Muslims.
Here are the verses about Dhul-Qarnayn's story :
83 And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about Dhul-Qarnayn. Say, "I will recite to you about him a report."
٨٣  وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنْ ذِي الْقَرْنَيْنِ ۖ قُلْ سَأَتْلُو عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْهُ ذِكْرًا
84  Indeed We established him upon the earth, and We gave him to everything a way.
٨٤  إِنَّا مَكَّنَّا لَهُ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَآتَيْنَاهُ مِنْ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ سَبَبًا
85 So he followed a way
٨٥  فَأَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا
86  Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."
٨٦  حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِنْدَهَا قَوْمًا ۗ قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَنْ تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَنْ تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا
87  He said, "As for one who wrongs, we will punish him. Then he will be returned to his Lord, and He will punish him with a terrible punishment.
٨٧  قَالَ أَمَّا مَنْ ظَلَمَ فَسَوْفَ نُعَذِّبُهُ ثُمَّ يُرَدُّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِ فَيُعَذِّبُهُ عَذَابًا نُكْرًا
88  “But as for one who believes and does righteousness, he will have a reward of Paradise, and we will speak to him from our command with ease."
٨٨  وَأَمَّا مَنْ آمَنَ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُ جَزَاءً الْحُسْنَىٰ ۖ وَسَنَقُولُ لَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِنَا يُسْرًا
89  Then he followed a way
٨٩  ثُمَّ أَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا
90  Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield.
٩٠  حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَطْلِعَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَطْلُعُ عَلَىٰ قَوْمٍ لَمْ نَجْعَلْ لَهُمْ مِنْ دُونِهَا سِتْرًا
91  Thus. And We had encompassed [all] that he had in knowledge.
٩١  كَذَٰلِكَ وَقَدْ أَحَطْنَا بِمَا لَدَيْهِ خُبْرًا
92 Then he followed a way
٩٢  ثُمَّ أَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا
93 Until, when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a people who could hardly understand [his] speech.
٩٣  حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ بَيْنَ السَّدَّيْنِ وَجَدَ مِنْ دُونِهِمَا قَوْمًا لَا يَكَادُونَ يَفْقَهُونَ قَوْلًا
94 They said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, indeed Gog and Magog are [great] corrupters in the land. So may we assign for you an expenditure that you might make between us and them a barrier?"
٩٤  قَالُوا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِنَّ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ مُفْسِدُونَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَهَلْ نَجْعَلُ لَكَ خَرْجًا عَلَىٰ أَنْ تَجْعَلَ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَهُمْ سَدًّا
95  He said, "That in which my Lord has established me is better [than what you offer], but assist me with strength; I will make between you and them a dam.
٩٥  قَالَ مَا مَكَّنِّي فِيهِ رَبِّي خَيْرٌ فَأَعِينُونِي بِقُوَّةٍ أَجْعَلْ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ رَدْمًا
96  Bring me sheets of iron" - until, when he had leveled [them] between the two mountain walls, he said, "Blow [with bellows]," until when he had made it [like] fire, he said, "Bring me, that I may pour over it molten copper."
٩٦  آتُونِي زُبَرَ الْحَدِيدِ ۖ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا سَاوَىٰ بَيْنَ الصَّدَفَيْنِ قَالَ انْفُخُوا ۖ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا جَعَلَهُ نَارًا قَالَ آتُونِي أُفْرِغْ عَلَيْهِ قِطْرًا
97  So they were unable to pass over it, nor were they able [to effect] in it any penetration.
٩٧  فَمَا اسْطَاعُوا أَنْ يَظْهَرُوهُ وَمَا اسْتَطَاعُوا لَهُ نَقْبًا
98  [Dhul-Qarnayn] said, "This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it level, and ever is the promise of my Lord true."
٩٨  قَالَ هَٰذَا رَحْمَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّي ۖ فَإِذَا جَاءَ وَعْدُ رَبِّي جَعَلَهُ دَكَّاءَ ۖ وَكَانَ وَعْدُ رَبِّي حَقًّا
I) Does the story of Dhul-Qarnayn come from the stories of Alexander the Great ?
Many Christians and Atheists claim that the story of Dhul-Qarnayn. In fact, Gog and Magog were always, in Judeo-Christian tradition, an evil people, or hord, or army, that would arrive to Palestine to destroy it. But the Lord would come down from Heaven to destroy Gog and Magog and save Palestine. Throughout centuries, Jews have assimilated Gog and Magog to many people such as the Huns, the Khazars, the Mongols and the Turks. All of them actually invaded (a part of) Middle-East, so it shows that Jews named Gog and Magog any people that would invade Middle-East and come close to Palestine because of fear. Many muslims ''scholars'' still claim that Gog and Magog are Turks. This totally false claim come from the time when the Turkish nomad tribes arrived in northern Middle-East.
Alexander the Great always fascinated people; they'd wrote many stories about him in which he's portrayed as a Christian king, fighting for God. So came the "Alexander Romance", a fictional Greek book of the 3rd century telling stories about Alexander. This book was popular and was translated to different languages through different versions (Latin version : 4rd century ; Armenian version : 5th c. ; Syriac version : 7th c.)[1]. The Non-Muslims claim that in the Alexander Romance, there is a story of Alexander the Great building a wall against the Huns (assimilated with Gog/Magog in Judeo-Christian tradition) and that it inspired the Prophet Muhammad to write this story in the Qu'ran, in which Dhul-Qarnayn (lit.: The Two-Horned One) building a wall against Ya'Juj/Ma'Juj.
Historians know that the Syriac version of the Alexander Romance is very special, for it includes many stories that are absent in the others (such as Alexander's travel to China). « The Syrian redactor, probably an East Syrian Christian, added a certain number of until then unknown episodes to the text. The episode of Alexander's building a wall against Gog and Magog, however, is not found in the oldest Greek, Latin, Armenian and Syriac versions of the Romance. Though the Alexander Romance was decisive for the spreading of the new and supernatural image of Alexander the king in East and West, the barrier episode has not its origin in this text. The fusion of the motif of Alexander's barrier with the Biblical tradition of the apocalyptic peoples Gog and Magog appears in fact for the first time in the so called Syriac Alexander Legend. This text is a short appendix attached to Syriac manuscripts of the Alexander Romance.»[2]
When was the Alexander Romance written ? According to both references I just mentionned, although «neither the author, nor the precise date of the Syriac version of the Alexander Romance are known»[1] it must have been written after the year 629-630 A.D, following « the glorious victory of Emperor Heraclius over the Sasanian king Khusrau Parvez. G. Reinink [a German historian] underlines the political setting of the Legend which clearly shows a pro-Byzantine propaganda. »[2]
First of all, it must be said that Surah Al-Kafh was revealed during the Meccan period (610-622 A.D), to be more precise, the Second Meccan Period (615-617 A.D). So, the Qu'ran could not have copied the Alexander Legend, for it came at least 15 years after the revelation of the Surah (in 629-630 A.D).
Second of all, the historians say that the Legend appeared immediately after the battle between Heraclius and Khusrau. However, in the Legend, Alexander «reaches a land which is confined by a stinking sea, where no life is possible. Alexander is obliged to return and comes to a place where the sun enters the window of heaven. When it rises, people hide in holes in order not to be burned. He then proceeds to the confines of the north; he crosses Armenia and approaches a high mountain called the "Great Musas".»[2] The "stinking sea" is really similar to the "murky spring" of verse 83 ; the place where "the sun rises" and where "people hide in holes not to be burned" is similar to the "people that had provided no shelter from the sun" of verse 90 ; and the wall against Gog and Magog is clearly the same that of the verse 96. This clearly shows that, considering the Qu'ran came before, the Alexander Legend was inspired by it. The author, a Eastern-Christian scholar, couldn't have learned about the Qu'ran until the Islamic conquest of Syria that happened around 636 A.D. It almost makes more sense that this book was written during the conquest of Syria, considering that «the purpose of the Legend probably was to win the separated Syrian Christians back to a union with the imperial church of Constantinople. »[2]. So, this shows that the Alexander Legend came AFTER the Qu'ran, and was a COPY of it, not the other way around...
References :
1 : THE SYRIAC VERSION OF THE ALEXANDER ROMANCE; Claudia A. CIANCAGLINI
2 : Gog and Magog in Early Syriac and Islamic Sources-Sallam's Quest for Alexander's Wall; Emeri van Donzel, Andrea Schmidt.
II) What does the Qu'ran say ?
MEANING OF SABAB
Let us ignore for a moment the context behind this story and immediately study it. In the verses 84, 85, 89 and 92, the word sabab (سبب), translated here by "way", is used. This is the word that refutates any other explanation, even the one proposed in this website. In the Lisan al Arab and Taj al-Arus, two classical arabic dictionnary, the word sabab can mean : a reason, a cause, an alibi, ... but it also means a rope used to climbing high places, used for going up, to ascend. The word sabab is the one used to describes the ropes used for climbing date palms :


As you can see, this is a sabab.
In the Qu'ran, the word sabab is used in the meaning of something ascending to the sky and often translated by "way" in English translation, although the correct translation should be "celestial way". It is clear that the "rope" is metaphorical and designate a "way", a "celestial way" for going up, ascending to the sky, the same way people go up for date palms. The word is repeated 4 times (excluding the dhul-qarnayn story) in the Qu'ran :
22:15 Anyone who fancies that Allah will not support him in this world and in the Hereafter, let him reach out to heaven through a rope (sabab), and then make a hole in the sky and see whether his device can avert that which enrages him
Here, Allah defy people to ascend to the sky through a "rope" or "celestial way".
38:10 Or is theirs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and what is between them? Then let them ascend through any ways (sabab) of access.
Here, Allah defy people of ascending to Heaven through "ropes" or "celestial ways"
40:36-37 And Pharaoh said, "O Haman, construct for me a tower that I might reach the ways (sabab)- the ways (sabab) into the heavens - so that I may look at the deity of Moses; but indeed, I think he is a liar." And thus was made attractive to Pharaoh the evil of his deed, and he was averted from the right way. And the plan of Pharaoh was not except in ruin.
Pharaoh wants a tower so that he could reach the ways of heavens. This shows that sabab is used for something ascending to the sky.
2:166 And they should consider that] when those who have been followed disassociate themselves from those who followed [them], and they [all] see the punishment, and cut off from them are the ties [of relationship] (esbab),
Esbab, plural sabab, means here "ties of relationship" and is the only exception here, for all other verses mention "ropes" or "celestial ways".
Why should this be different with the story of Dhul-Qarnayn ? You must understand that by going to "the sky", the word "sky" refers to firmament, to the universe, to space. So, by a miracle of Allah, by surnatural magic, by a spaceship or who knows what mean, Dhul-Qarnayn went to space !
85 So he followed a (celestial) way 86 until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people.
FIRST JOURNEY
In verses 85-86, Dhul-Qarnayn follows a celestial way to the "setting of the sun". If we were to think that this story happens on Earth, then, where is this place ? The sun sets in a different place according to the reader's location (in Europe, Africa, America, ...), but the Qu'ran was sent to all mankind, not just the Arabs. So, the "setting of the sun" is basically nowhere. We have no idea where it is, but then, why did Allah precise the destination of the travel ? This verse makes no sense whatsoever if we deliberately ignore the meaning of the word sabab, but we now know that this is a space travel.
The "setting of the sun", in arabic : maghriba ash-shams, is a very unique place. The word maghriba (in English= the West, the Occident, place of sunset, sundown) repeated 9 times (2:115; 2:142; 2:177; 2:258; 26:28; 50:39; 55:17; 70:40; 73:9) in the Qu'ran is never followed by "ash-shams". 18:86 is the only verse where "maghriba ash-shams" is present, the only one out of 6236 verses.
2:115 : maghriba
2:142 : maghriba
2:177 : maghriba
2:258 : maghriba
26:28 : maghriba
50:39 : maghriba
55:17 : maghriba
70:40 : maghriba
73:9 : maghriba
18:86 : maghriba ash-shams
Don't you think this was made deliberately ? Don't you think Allah knows better than us the content of the Qu'ran ?
50:39 So be patient, [O Muhammad], over what they say and exalt [ Allah ] with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting,
Notice how "the sun" follows "the rising" and not "setting". This was made deliberately: maghriba and maghriba ash-shams are two different places that have nothing to do with each other, so you will never found maghriba followed by "ash-shams".
In arabic, maghriba can mean : to immigrate, to go, to departure,  to go away, to walk away, to move from one place to another. So, maghriba ash-shams indicates the place where the sun goes. Where does the sun go ? Based on modern astronomy, Iskender Türe says this is the solar apex, the point located near the star Vega in the Hercules constellation, where our Sun is headed by following a straight line.

An alternative explanation is our galaxy's center : in the center of the Milky Way lies a gigantic black hole. Extremely slowly, the stars, born in the outer regions of the galaxy, are getting closer to the center and got swalloded in this black hole. Our sun, one day, will end up in the center of the galaxy.
36:38 And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.
This "stopping point" certainly designates Sagittarius A, the massive black hole in which we will end up. But is the "spotting point" and the place "where the sun goes" the same place ? We cannot tell for sure, so I've put the two explanations, but Iskender Türe's one is surely the most correct, because Allah would have said "setting point of the sun" instead of "where the sun goes" if it was the galaxy's center. Let's return to the verse :
86 until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people.
Let us insist on "setting in a spring of dark mud". The word fi (فِى) is used. It means that the sun set INTO the spring. Aynin means spring or eye. The last word is important because there is two ways of reading it : hami'atin (dark mud) or hamiyyatin (hot, warm). In the different readings of Qu'ran, 6 of them uses hamiyyatin + a hadith of Abu Dharr reported by Abu Dawud confirms this should be the correct reading (https://sunnah.com/abudawud/32/34). But you will see that hami'atin is partially correct.
Now, it means that the sun was setting in (according to different meaning and reading) either a hot spring/ hot eye/ dark and mudy spring/ dark and mudy eye. The correct one is the second one, for Allah talks about a black hole :


Hamiyyatin is correct, for the temperature of black holes goes up to hundred of millions of degrees (celsius). But hami'atin is kinda of correct, since it is black.
Now, what does this mean? When Dhul-Qarnayn reached the solar apex, he saw, not our sun, but another star that was going into a black hole. The verse says "he saw it setting" and not "he saw the sun setting..." because this is not our sun that we're talking about, but another sun.
86 (...) and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness." 87 He said, "As for one who wrongs, we will punish him. Then he will be returned to his Lord, and He will punish him with a terrible punishment. 88 “But as for one who believes and does righteousness, he will have a reward of Paradise, and we will speak to him from our command with ease."
This verse confirms the existence of extraterrestrial life ! 36:11 Allah begins creation; then He will repeat it; then to Him you will be returned. The Creation of Allah is not limited to men. It is contradictory to think that Allah only created angels, djins and men and that's it : after them it is the hereafter.  The universe is gigantic for a reason ! Allah's Creation is bigger than men.
Summary : Near the Solar Apex, there was a star and a inhabited planet rotating around it that was about to get swalloded by a black hole; Dhul-Qarnayn saved the believers amongst them and let the unbelievers to die.
SECOND JOURNEY
89  Then he followed a way 90 until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield.
Now, the "rising of the sun" is expressed by the words matlia ash-shams. This case is similar to how maghriba ash-shams was unique and used only once. The "rising of the sun" is always expressed by "machrika" and matlia was used in another verse but not with ash-shams but with "al-fajr" (rise of dawn)
97:5 : matlia al fajr
2:115 : machrika       
2:142 : machrika
2:177 : machrika
2:258 : machrika
26:28 : machrika
37:5 : machrika
70:40 : machrika
73:9 : machrika
18:90 : matlia ash-shams
This specific change was made deliberately, to mark the difference between "machrik" (in English= East, place where the Sun rises from) and matlia ash-shams (where the Sun comes from). The opposite of the Solar apex is the Solar antapex (go back to the third picture), near the star Furud (or Zeta Canis Majoris). Now, Allah says that Dhul-Qarnayn found another planet there, with no shelter against this planet's sun ("he found it setting" does not refer to our sun but to the said planet's sun). This could refer to an atmosphere. Our planet's atmosphere protect us from the Sun's ultraviolet radiation which could kill us. But the word for shelter is sitran which can mean a shield, a protection, a shelter, a cloth, a headscarf, a veil, something that covers the head or hides sunlight. Does it refer to an atmosphere? Iskender Türe gives another explanation :
78:10 And made the night as clothing (libasa)
Libasa means a cloak, a cloth, a clothing, a blanket, something that hides or obscure something. You could argue that if Allah wanted to speak about the night, He would have said libasa and not sitran but their meaning is actually complementary : in 78:10, it is said that the night covers Earth and darkens it, in 18:90 it is described as something that protect us or cover us from sunlight. They aren't contradictory at all.
If this verse talks about night, then what does this mean ? A planet without night ? Could this exist ? It could :

In binary stellar systems, where two stars orbit around each other, if a planet orbited a star in a equivalent speed of the orbit of the said star around the second star, it would always stay in the middle of the two stars (like the planet above the word s-type in the picture), and so, its two hemispheres would always be enlightened and no night would exist. 91 Thus. And We had encompassed [all] that he had in knowledge.
Summary : Dhul-Qarnayn went to the Solar Antapex where he found a binary stellar system and a planet whose two hemispheres are always enlightened
THIRD JOURNEY :
92 Then he followed a (celestial) way 93 until, when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a people who could hardly understand [his] speech.
Now, the word for "two mountains" is saddayn , plural of sadd. It means : an obstacle, a wall, a barrier, also a natural barrier like a mountain or hill, but more importantly, a visiblebarrier. But there is a second reading to this word (like hamiyyatin and hami'atin) which is suddayn. Suddayn (plural of sudd) is similar to saddayn in the sense that it refers to, not a visible, but an invisible barrier. Iskender Türe cites the definition of the Lisan al Arab which describes the word as a invisible barrier, obstacle, but also a cloud or fog, more specifically, a black cloud/fog or something that blocks light from passing through. Now, we know that there are clouds in the universe : they're known as nebulas and are made of gas and dust. But there's also dark nebulas; nebulas so dense that they block the light from stars behind it to pass through them:
The word sudd completely fit to the description of a dark nebula.
You can see multiple dark nebulas here. So Ya'Juj Ma'Juj planet is located between a pair of dark nebula somewhere in our galaxy. I'd like to go back to the verse 92, where it is said that the people could hardly understand Dhul-Qarnayn : this make much more sense because they are two different species and the difficulty of communicating is now understandable.
94 They said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, indeed Gog and Magog are [great] corrupters in the land. So may we assign for you an expenditure that you might make between us and them a barrier?" 95  He said, "That in which my Lord has established me is better [than what you offer], but assist me with strength; I will make between you and them a dam. 96  Bring me sheets of iron" - until, when he had leveled [them] between the two mountain walls, he said, "Blow [with bellows]," until when he had made it [like] fire, he said, "Bring me, that I may pour over it molten copper."
So Dhul-Qarnayn reached a inhabited planet between a pair of dark nebulas, and they asked him to build a barrier (the reading is either sadd or sudd; but in this case it does not make so much difference) against Gog and Magog who were attacking them. But Dhul-Qarnayn says he will build a dam (radm) Radm means a build, construction, embankment, but the Lisan Al Arab says that it can mean a stack of clouds. How convenient !
Now, let's skip the construction of the radm for a moment and see this sentence : until, when he had leveled [them] between the two mountain walls. A incorrect translation, for the arabic says "hata ida sawa bayna al sadafayni". The scholars, thinking that Dhul-Qarnayn story happened on Earth, always say that the two mountains got closer so that Dhul-Qarnayn could more easily build his wall : false ! The arabic sentence litteraly means : until the sadafan got closer. If Allah was speaking about the mountains, he would have used the word saddayn/suddayn. Here, He use the word sadafan, which is totally different. So the sentence in this context means : until the countries/lands got closer.
I would like you to take another look at the picture of the binary stellar system : you can see that some planet orbit the first star (let's name it star A) and other the second star (let's name it star B). Now, let's imagine the planet of Dhul-Qarnayn and the people is named X and is orbiting A. The planet of Ya'Juj Ma'Juj is named Y and is orbiting B. So, A and B orbit each other. X orbit A; Y orbit B. Just look at the system of the left

When A and B orbit each other, at one point, X and Y will inevitably got close at one point. That's what Allah meant when He said the "lands" got close to each other (although there could be alternative system explaining this sentence, this is the one that Iskender Türe choose so you could get the idea). You're probably asking yourself a lot of questions at this point, stay with me.
So, at one point, X and Y gets close to each other. This probably the moment where Ya'Juj Ma'Juj go to planet X to raid it and then they go back to their home planet. So what ? Well, you should know that because of gravity, if our Moon had light gas, because the Earth's gravity is stronger, the Earth takes all of the Moon's gas : that's why there is no gas on the Moon, if they were, we would capture them. This is what happened with Ya'Juj Ma'Juj. Dhul-Qarnayn never build a wall but a radm (stack of cloud/gas). He asks the people to bring blocks of iron, to melt them and blow and pour molten cooper over it. This process actually makes many gas like hydrogen, methane, hydrocarbon, ... When Y and X got close to each other, Dhul-Qarnayn produced many gas that Y captured. Now, depending on the temperature, gravity, atmospheric pression, the gas could have provoked different things : we know that hydrogen and methane are highly flammable and this could provoke heavy damages to the planet, its environment and atmosphere but that's only speculation. We can't know for sure. If you think there is no way that burning iron and cooper could block an entire specie from leaving its planet, did you know that simply burning fossil and fuel provoked a increase of 150% in Earth's quantity of CO2 and methane. Some explosions of oil platforms provoked a leak of enormous gas in the atmosphere... So, it is very possible. Second of all, nothing says that this story took places in a few days : all of Dhul-Qarnayn's journeys might have taken many years. Who knows ?
Summary : Dhul-Qarnayn found a binary stellar system made of at least 2 planets between a pair of dark nebulas. Ya'Juj Ma'Juj would attack their neighbour planet to raid it and cause corruption on it, so Dhul-Qarnayn made gas (hydrogen, methane, ...) to block them. Since the temperature/atmospheric pression/gravity could influence those gas' reactions, we cannot know what they provoked, but it stopped Ya'Juj Ma'Juj for a while.
[Dhul-Qarnayn] said, "This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it level, and ever is the promise of my Lord true."
One day, those gas will dissipate and Ya'Juj Ma'Juj will be free again.
III) Who is Dhul-Qarnayn ?
I am currently trying to find out who is Dhul-Qarnayn. Since Allah speaks to him directly, he must be a prophet. And according to the hadiths/tafseers, the Meccan asked Jewish Rabbis how to know if Muhammad was a prophet, considering that they knew better who were prophets or not. So the Jewish said to them : "ask him about the one who went to the East and the West (...) If he can answer, he is a prophet, if not, deal with him like you wish." That means that Dhul-Qarnayn is a Prophet known by Jews, but in the Bible, there is no such story. I'm currently looking at some apocryphe books to find out where did the Jews knew about him. You can also help me : my best guess is Prophet Enoch/Idriss considering that he is described in the Bible "going to the sky"...
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:35:54 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 04:38:39 PM »
Wow that is very interesting. This should be posted to these website's articles.

Offline murataydin

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Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2020, 01:00:47 PM »
IV) If you still think that Dhul-Qarnayn's story happened on Earth ?

- How do you explain the word sabab, which means a celestial way ? How can it happen on Earth when Allah says 4 times that it happened in the sky/space ?
- How do you explain the setting of the sun in a murky spring ? Many Muslims, out of shame, avoid this problem by saying that it was the description of Dhul-Qarnayn's view: false ! It is Allah speaking! Unless this is a sentence like : He said : "I saw it setting in a murky spring", but this is not the case. You must understand that every word of the Quran was spoken by Allah, so the setting of the sun is said by Allah, therefore it cannot be Dhul-Qarnayn's view nor can it be a scientific error...
- How do you explain the fact that maghriba ash-shams in only present in this verse and that other verses only contain maghriba individually, and not followed by any other words ? This difference was made deliberately !
- How do you explain matlia ash-shams, only present in this verse, for all other verses about the setting of the sun mention machrika....
- How do you explain the absence of a gigantic iron wall on Earth ? That Ya'juj Ma'juj are stuck behind it (or underground even though the Quran says no such thing) for centuries now ? How did they survive underground ?
- How do you explain the fact that the definition of sudd fits completely the one of a dark nebula ? Did Allah not know this ? Was it a coincidence ? Is there even coincidence in the Word of Allah ?
- How do you explain the word radm ?
- How do you explain the sentence hata ida sawa bayna al sadafayni, which means until the lands/countries/planets came to the same level/came closer ?
THIS PROVES THAT YA'JUJ MA'JUJ ARE EXTRATERRESTRIAL ! ALL HADITHS SAYING THAT THEY ARE TURKS OR MONGOLS OR HUNS ARE FALSE !

Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2020, 03:52:42 PM »
Yeah that's true. Many Muslims not just believe that the sun set in a murky spring inذِى الْقَرْنَيْنِ view but some Muslims believe in the absurd claim that the sun literally sets in a murky spring on Earth!

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2020, 08:28:04 PM »
Actually, you make a good point about black holes.

"spring of murky water" aynin ḥami-atin--as you said Aynin also means "eye". So it could be translated as "the sun setting in the eye of murky water".

Black holes actually bend light around them. So it is rather murky around the black hole, and the "eye" of the black hole is pitch black. Just one correction to what you posted: black holes are actually really cold (not hot)--almost at a temperature of absolute zero.

Here is an article about how black holes bend light.

https://www.stsci.edu/~marel/black_holes/encyc_mod3_q11.html#:~:text=Light%20rays%20that%20pass%20close,by%20the%20black%20hole's%20gravity.&text=This%20is%20called%20gravitational%20lensing.

"Therefore, the region around the black hole is a dark disk. Light rays that pass a little further away don't get caught but do get bent by the black hole's gravity. This makes the starfield appear distorted. This is called gravitational lensing"

Good find. I appreciate alternative interpretations especially since the Quran states that there will be instances where the interpretation is unspecific (3:7, 2:26) and Allah has deliberately put them in the Quran.

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2020, 08:31:11 PM »
Just one correction to what you posted: black holes are actually really cold (not hot)--almost at a temperature of absolute zero.

Actually, let me correct my own saying. Black holes are freezing cold on the inside, but incredibly hot just outside on its surface.

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2020, 09:22:38 PM »
So that is, the muddy water surrounding the black hole would be hot, but the eye/center of the muddy water would be ridiculously cold.

Also note, in Arabic, "mai" مَآء does not necessarily mean "water", it means "a flowing substance". Oil would be considered "mai" in classical arabic even though it is not H2O. The best translation of "mai" is "fluid" not "H2O". Matter actually becomes fluid like around a black hole, light itself bends while it is overcome by the black hole's gravity. So the area around the black hole actually resembles murky fluid/water.

It is also important to recognize that Quran 18-86 is talking about Dul Quarnain's perceptions!

[Quran 18-86)  He found it [Arabic: wajadaha = perceived it] setting in the eye of murky fluid.

So again, it is important in recognizing this verse is describing his perception of the black hole as appearing like murky waters.

In fact, here's a study explaining how black holes resemble lumps of liquid:

[/url] https://arxiv.org/abs/0811.2381 [/url] "The old suggestive observation that black holes often resemble lumps of fluid has recently been taken beyond the level of an analogy to a precise duality"

But it is important to note, that it doesn't matter if scientists agree that black holes resemble lumps of fluid. Black holes objectively bend light around them making the view of light around the black holes "murky" and as such it resembles liquid or murky water.

Also notice how the Quran uses the word "murky" water, murky means dirty/dark water. Black holes are literally dark and as you approach them light is overcome by their gravity and gradually becomes dark.

Offline murataydin

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Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 10:38:18 AM »
Yes very interesting Mclinkin94! Hami'atin and hamiyyatin are both correct in describing the black hole. But I would like to come back to 2 statements of yours, when you said you liked this "alternative interpretation" because I think this is the only interpretation possible. There is no way this story could have happened on Earth considering the word sabab which literally refers to something that ascends to the sky, to space. So there's no way this was on Earth, because Allah wouldn't have used sabab if it was the case. The second sentence is when you said this is Dhul-Qarnayn's perception: yes but no. Muslims think that the "sun setting in a murky spring" means he thought that the sun was setting in a murky spring, because it was how he perceived it. But here, it is Allah speaking. The sentence is not : Dhul-Qarnayn said : I have found the sun setting in a murky spring!". It is Allah describing what Dhul-Qarnayn saw therefore it cannot be a metaphorical or subjective. It must be a scientific fact, so this clearly refutates the interpretation that the "setting on a murky spring" is supposed to be interpreted metaphorically.
I don't know if I made myself clear : what I mean is that since Allah is describing what Dhul-Qarnayn sees, the "murky spring" must a fact and not a metaphorical or subjective view... This is how we must interpret the "setting of the sun in a murky spring" literaly!

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2020, 02:16:50 PM »
Yes very interesting Mclinkin94! Hami'atin and hamiyyatin are both correct in describing the black hole. But I would like to come back to 2 statements of yours, when you said you liked this "alternative interpretation" because I think this is the only interpretation possible. There is no way this story could have happened on Earth considering the word sabab which literally refers to something that ascends to the sky, to space. So there's no way this was on Earth, because Allah wouldn't have used sabab if it was the case. The second sentence is when you said this is Dhul-Qarnayn's perception: yes but no. Muslims think that the "sun setting in a murky spring" means he thought that the sun was setting in a murky spring, because it was how he perceived it. But here, it is Allah speaking. The sentence is not : Dhul-Qarnayn said : I have found the sun setting in a murky spring!". It is Allah describing what Dhul-Qarnayn saw therefore it cannot be a metaphorical or subjective. It must be a scientific fact, so this clearly refutates the interpretation that the "setting on a murky spring" is supposed to be interpreted metaphorically.
I don't know if I made myself clear : what I mean is that since Allah is describing what Dhul-Qarnayn sees, the "murky spring" must a fact and not a metaphorical or subjective view... This is how we must interpret the "setting of the sun in a murky spring" literaly!

I think you make good points overall.

However, I want to say that the Quran said "HE" (Dhul Qarnayn) saw/perceived it setting on black fluid. I want to say that BOTH are possible. It is possible that Dhul Qarnayn perceived the right thing (as you say), and it is also possible that Dhul Qarnayn perceived it as if it had been setting on black water. Both are perfectly fine and do not challenge your argument in any way. So its all good.  Having flexibility in interpretation is not a weakness, it is a strength of the Quran :)

In fact, the study I showed you admitted that scientists say they see black holes as looking like a lump of fluid!!

[/url] https://arxiv.org/abs/0811.2381 [/url] "The old suggestive observation that black holes often resemble lumps of fluid has recently been taken beyond the level of an analogy to a precise duality"

You presented a good find. Please keep up the good work.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: True Story of Dhul-Qarnayn - MIRACLE OF QU'RAN (READ !)
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2020, 07:37:41 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,

Jazaka Allah Khayr for the research brother.  I haven't studied it yet, but I have uploaded your images to the website to permanently preserve them.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

 

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