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« on: September 25, 2017, 11:50:12 AM »
assalamu alaikum,
i have a question on the things christian pose on mary being a part of the trinity. i always brushed it aside but lately i looked into it and had some issues with it. (i have checked links of answering christianity but havent found an answer to my questions)
1. firstly why does the quran never say the christians worship the holy spirit, it always says they worship jesus and mary, but never the holy spirit who is one of the persons in their trinity.
2. why have big scholars of islam said that the quran says the trinity consists of father jesus and mary
examples: Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
With regard to what the Qur’an says about what the Christians said, “Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)”, the commentators said that it refers to Allah, the Messiah and his mother, as Allah, may He be exalted, tells us that He will say (interpretation of the meaning): “‘O 'Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: “Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?”’” [al-Maa’idah 5:116]. Hence in the context of this passage He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“The Messiah ['Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddeeqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allah and His Books]”
[al-Maa’idah 5:75].
The most that the Messiah can be is a Messenger, and the most that his mother can be is a siddeeqah; they could never reach the level of divinity. The one proves the other (that is, the fact that they are no more than that is proof that the Messiah is not God), and this is quite clear. End quote.
Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (2/444).
ibn kathir states they believed jesus and mary were gods, Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The words “They both used to eat food” mean: they both needed to be nourished by food, and to expel the resulting waste products. So they were two slaves of Allah, like all other people, and they were not gods as the ignorant Christians claim. End quote. Tafseer Ibn Katheer (3/159).
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said, in the context of discussing the verses that refute the blasphemy of the Christians:
The words of Allah (interpretation of the meaning): “The Messiah ['Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him” [al-Maa’idah 5:75] come after the words “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: ‘Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)’” [al-Maa’idah 5:73], which indicates that the trinity that Allah says they believe in involves regarding the Messiah son of Maryam and his mother as two gods.
This is clear, on the basis that what is narrated from the Christians is that they believe that the divine descended upon Mary and was incarnated in the Messiah. This is in accordance with their beliefs.
Based on that, every verse in which Allah mentions their views refers to all of their groups and refers to their belief in the Trinity and the notions of the divine descending upon Mary and being incarnated in the Messiah. Thus it includes all types of Christians and all types of their blasphemy. It is not the case that every verse that speaks of them is speaking of one type, as some have suggested, and there is not one verse that speaks about the Trinity and another that speaks about the descent of the divine and incarnation. Rather Allah, may He be glorified, mentions, in every single verse referred to, the blasphemy this is common to all of them, but He describes their blasphemy is being threefold, each aspect of which implies the other two: they say that the Messiah is God, and they say that he is the son of God, and they say that God is the third of three, as they took their Messiah and his mother as gods besides the true God, one on the basis of the divine descending upon her and the other on the basis of the divine being incarnated in him. Thus it becomes clear that they believe in three gods in one. This covers all the blasphemous concepts of the Christians. End quote.
Al-Fataawa al-Kubra (6/589-590).
why would such big scholars interpret these ayat to mean that mary was part of trinity if we claim that the quran doesnt say this
3. my questions on sura 5 and the trinity and mary
it starts at chapter 5:72, Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.
so anyone who believes jesus is god goes to hell
5:73, They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (here it speaks of trinity and says that anyone who says god is a trinity, or third of three have disbelieved)
5:74, Will they not then repent to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Ever Forgiving, Ever-Merciful.
5:75 here my problem comes, The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
after just mentioning the trinity the quran then mentions the messiah and mary, and with the statement they both used to eat food allah is trying to disprove both the divinity of mary and jesus. if mary was not part of the trinity according to the quran, why was not the holy spirit ever mentioned, why do these big alims like ibn taymiyyah and ibn kathir deduct it from the quran, and why does the quran after mentioning the trinity in verse 73 go on and disprove the divinity of both mary and jesus in 5:75. it seems as if 5:73 is speaking of three beings allah and two others, and then in 5:75 it disproves the divinity of both jesus and mary which would only be logical if they were the two in the trinity in the first place.
Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
So some Christians may assert from verse 75, where Mary is mentioned, that the Quran does believe that Mary was part of the Trinity. They will assert that since the Quran makes the point that both Mary and Jesus ate food, the Quran here is trying to disprove divinity from both Jesus and Mary, and with the Trinity being mentioned in verse 73, this must mean the author thought that Mary was in the Trinity.
6. next quran 5:116, And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?” He will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, you would have certainly known it. You know what is ˹hidden˺ within me, but I do not know what is within You. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Knower of all unseen.
i know this verse alone does not prove trinity, because the verse says nothing about trinitty, it just says taking mary as a god which catholics and collyrdians and marimites did. and quran 9:31 says the same message and this also doesnt mean trinity
Sahih International: They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.
but if we put it in the context of surah 5, 5:73-75 seems already to prove mary in the trinity, as it mentions the trinity in surah 5 , and then proceeds to disprove the divinity of mary which would only make sense if she was in the trinity oreviously mentioned also big alims like ibn taymiyyah and ibn kathir say this, then quran 5:116 goes on on speaking aboutt he divinity of mary.
i am having big trouble with tthis and i would love it if you could help me out
jzk khair.