Answering Christianity Research Center

Quote from: Final Overture

Nothing really different. I said he was on cross but didn't die.

The Qur'an  affirms  "they neither killed him NOR CRUCIFIED him" ...  , If one has basic knowledge in Arabic ,one realizes easily that "salaba" means " to be put on a cross" , not "to die on a cross".
If you disagree with that linguistic fact ,then provide your counter linguistic input,plz.
till you do ,your statement  "Jesus was on cross but didn't die" clearly against the Qur'an statement "they didn't put him on the cross aka crucify him" .

to make the matter worse ,for the swoon theory ,

The Holy Quran 5:110 Then God will say, Jesus, son of Mary, remember My favour to you and to your mother: how I strengthened you with the holy spirit, so that you could speak to people in childhood and in maturity; and how I taught you the Book, and wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel; how by My leave you fashioned from clay the shape of a bird and blew upon it, so that, by My leave, it became a bird, and healed the blind and the leper by My permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and how I prevented the Children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with clear signs, when those of them who denied the truth said, This is sheer magic.


According to the Quran, Jesus was not only protected from being put on the cross ,but also from any harm . including necessarily, being scourged violently, being nailed in the wrists that sever the median nerve resulting in a burning pain , The body gradually drains of blood causing the heart to beat faster and faster.  Dehydration is occurring.  The breathing becomes more labored and intense as well as frequent, adding to the agony.  The blood loss results in extreme thirst as the body craves water to restore the lost blood.  The heart beats so hard trying to compensate for the loss of oxygen (due to the lack of blood) in the body, that it eventually ruptures.  At this point the chest cavity fills with fluid. to add ,a soldier pierced Jesus' side and out came blood and water, signifying that the heart had stopped beating and the blood was settling in the chest cavity. A crown of thorns was placed on his head . then his  body was wrapped in linen (Matt. 27:59).  This wrapping was done tightly around the whole body from head to toe.remaining in a dark,cold tomb for three days .

If that was the protection from harm ,I wonder how could have been the case if God decided not to protect him from harm !!!!.....

That is not what the verse is saying, is it? http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=5&verse=110 I didn't see 'harm' there.

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/%D8%B5%D9%8E%D9%84%D9%8E%D8%A8%D9%8F/ar-en/ just crucifixion.
http://www.dicts.info/ud.php?w=%D8%B5%D9%8E%D9%84%D9%8E%D8%A8%D9%8F&l1=Arabic

Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, `The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up." Matthew 17:22-23

Note ,jesus is claimed that he said "they will kill Him"  not "they will try to kill him" ..

Now none of the fans of the swoon theory ,would ever argue that the betrayal in the verse is metaphorical ,but when it comes to killing or death ,mentioned in the very same verse ,their double standard is ready , shifting immediately from the literal to the metaphorical application to satisfy their own agenda.

again in   Luke 24 :46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day.

when you ask the fans of that theory whether the suffering(Six trials ,Scourging,Crown of thorns,Crucifixion ,Burial ) in the previous verse literal or metaphorical ,they won't deny the literal meaning ,but then again shifting immediately from the literal resurrection to the metaphorical, to satisfy their own agenda.

the same game they would apply again to : Matthew 20:17 they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify Him. And the third day He shall rise again."

Well, when you compare this to another verses i.e. let this cup be taken from me, it looks like the Gospelish Jesus can't choose whether he wants to die or not.

(John 19:30). “Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit ... So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs”

This is just what they saw. They thought he was dead. So what? I tell you according to Psalms 22 Jesus won't die, so he shouldn't.

If you (mistakenly) insist that the resurrection was metaphorical ,then let me rewrite the question:

where is it written in old testament ,psalms or whatever,that the messiah will be resurrected  METAPHORICALLY from the dead after 3 days?

Hosea 6?


P.S. Watch that video

Are they from time of Jesus (pbuh) or time of Muhammad (pbuh)?

Somewhere between, I guess . It doesn't really matter.

Quote from: Final Overture

I believe that Jesus was on cross .

versus

Quote from: Final Overture

I don't believe that Jesus was crucified..

Nothing really different. I said he was on cross but didn't die.

Luke 24 :44 He(Jesus) said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer (Not die) and rise from the dead on the third day.

Rise from the dead doesn't mean that he will die and be resurrected. How? Well, the video which i sent you before, why didn't you watch it? It has answers. Hebrews 11:19

He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.

Yet, we know Abraham's son didn't die there.
Psalms 31:12

I have been forgotten like one who is dead;

the second question ,where is it written in old testament ,psalms or whatever,that the messiah will be resurrected from the dead after 3 days?

Rise? Again, watch that video, it has answers to your questions

According to the Bible, Christ was sinless and perfect.

Why do you call him GOOD?

Are you really in doubt that Psalms 22 is about Jesus?
Psalms 22:

7 All who see me mock me;
they make mouths at me; they wag their heads;
8 “He trusts in the LORD; let him deliver him; let him rescue him, for he delights in him!”

Matthew 27

42“He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him. For he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”

(In Luke the Christ of God)

Psalms 22:

18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.

Luke 23:

34And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments.

whether he died on the cross, escaped it etc.... that doesn't change the fact that he was crucified .  If so ,then the swoon theory(that Jesus was crucified but later escaped the cross) which you believe in ,is clearly against the Quran.

Really? I believe that Jesus was on cross but didn't die.

In Arabic the verb "Salaba , crucify" does not denote automatically a death on a cross , but only hoisting or being hoisted up on a cross or plank or pole for the purpose of defamation and humiliation.

It doesn't really matter, if the word has two meanings. Jesus, surely didn't die.



Psalms 22:

23 You who fear the LORD, praise Him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify Him, and stand in awe of Him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For He has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, and He has not hidden His face from him, but has heard, when he cried to Him.

1- Do you believe as a Muslim,that Jesus was put on the cross?
2- What do you mean by "Crucified = died" ?

1 - Yes
2- Definition http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crucify
to put to DEATH by nailing or binding the hands and feet to a cross.

In another place, you suppose in one hand that Jesus was nailed to the cross and had his hands and feet been pierced ,on the other hand you  said "Surely, Psalms 22 tell us that Jesus won't die, or were put to shame.."

Being nailed or pierced to the cross won't make you die!

1- Nothing from the verses ,nor other verses ,suggests that mere dying or being killed dishonor the prophets .

Right,

2 Chronicles 36:15 The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 16 But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD rose against his people, until there was no remedy.

Nehemiah 9:26 Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.

1 Kings 19:10 He said, “I have been very jealous for the LORD, the God of hosts. For the people of Israel have forsaken your covenant, thrown down your altars, and killed your prophets with the sword, and I, even I only, am left, and they seek my life, to take it away.”

in other words how do you know that such (so called) prophecies are applied to Jesus and not anyone else ?

Jesus himself quoted it, so why not?

1st : we are Muslims and don't believe that Jesus was crucified,isn't it? If so , I think no sense to use words that are claimed to be uttered by Jesus while he was crucified ,to make a point negating Jesus crucifixion.

2nd: The language in psalms ,is not a language of predictions if read carefully objectively ,it simply conveys the message of David that was assured that the Lord would preserve his life in the face of death. He rejoiced because God enabled his body to rest securely even when confronted with death.

About the first: Jesus said that before he was crucified, when he was pierced. Crucified = died. He was just peirced as written in the Psalms.
About the second: Luke 24:44

44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”