Author Topic: Wrong translation of the quran ? What is the meaning of this verse?  (Read 346 times)

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Offline murataydin

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Salam, I don't speak arabic so this is why I want to ask a question (if someone will want to answer)
5.24 : And to Him belong the ships [with sails] elevated in the sea like mountains. (Sahih translation)
5.25 : So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?
What does it mean ? First of all, ships elevated like mountains ? That doesn't make sense. And second of all : Why are ships mentionned as a favor/sign of God ? They are just boats, made by men. They are not special... I don't think it's boats that Allah is talking about... I was intrigued by this and I've looked up about the word in arabic for ships which is جوار
The online definition/translation for that word is : neighborhood. I thought this might be the modern sense of the word, and that before, in the time of the revelation of the Quran, it meant ships. But no ! I only see neighborhood, district, ...
However, I have seen that the urdu definition of the word is : highwater, tide, ... And the word ''elevated'' is نشأ which means : to grow, to rise, to evolve, to arise, to florish... (https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%A3/P) Doesn't it make more sense that Allah is talking about the tides that rises because of the moon's and the sun's attraction, instead of boats that are elevated like mountains or whatever that means ? Now, I know it is the urdu definition, this is why I ask to an arabic speaker if جوار can mean tide instead of ship, because I cannot find the ''ship'' translation/definition anywhere...

Offline Sama

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Salam

Your reference is Surat Arrahman





جَارِيَةٌ A ship; because of its running upon the sea:  an epithet in which the quality of a subst. predominates: pl. جَوَارٍ



And A mountain عَلَمٌ ; as forming a separation: or as being a known sign of the way:] pl. أَعْلَامٌ

« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 10:48:29 AM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Sama

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Jalalayn
    His are the crafted ships [that sail] in the sea [appearing] like landmarks, like mountains in their tremendous size and height.

Ibn Kathir:
    (And His are Al-Jawar Al-Munsha'at), meaning the ships that float,
    فِى الْبَحْرِ
    (in the seas), Mujahid said, "Whatever ship hoists a sail, it is from Munsha'at, if it does not hoist a sail, it is not from the Munsha'at.'' Qatadah said, "Al-Munsha'at means created.'' Others said that it is Al-Munshi'at meaning, "launched.''
    كَالاٌّعْلَـمِ
    (like A`lam.) This means, they are like mountains with their great size, and it also refers to the trade and commercial services they make possible, transporting cargo from one area to another and from one province to another. Ships provide various benefits for people, including transporting different types of goods they need. Therefore,
    فَبِأَىِّ ءَالاءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    (Then which of the blessings of your Lord will you both deny)

Tafhim al-Qur'an
    "His are the ships...": Ships became possible only by His power. It is He Who blessed man with the capability and skill that he may build ships for crossing the oceans; it is He Who created on the earth the material from which ships could be built; and it is He Who subjected water to the laws by which it became possible for the mountain-like ships to sail on the surface of the surging oceans.
    Here, the aspect of the blessing; and bounty is conspicuous in alaa', but the explanation given above shows that the aspect of power and good qualities also is present in it.

---
The surah then mentions the ships that sail through the sea, some of which are very large, looking like mountains:
"His are the lofty ships that sail like floating mountains through the seas." (Ayah24)
 The surah refers to these floating ships as belonging to God. They indeed sail by God's will. Nothing keeps them afloat in the sea, through its waves and currents except God's care. Hence, they belong to Him. They remain among the great favours with which He blesses human life. They provide a means of livelihood, transportation and comfort that people cannot deny.
Hence, the comment:
"Which, then, of your Lord's blessings do you both deny?" (Ayah 25)

Offline murataydin

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But I don't understand, why ships ? Allah mentions them as a sign/favor but ships are made by men... They float on water because of men. Waves don't do anything. A ship float eitheir by its sails or by oars. There must be a reason why He calls them of one His favors. Everything belongs to Allah, of course, but why does He specifically mentions ships ?
the ships that sail through the sea, some of which are very large, looking like mountains What ? That makes no sense. Why are we comparing a sea to a mountain ? They have nothing in common... I really don't understand this verse because before that verse, Allah talks about the stars, the Sun and Moon, the trees, the fruits, the sky, the men and djinns and about how, when two different seas encounter each other, they don't get mixed and there is a barrier between them (all of them are natural things)... The barrier between the seas is actually a scientific fact. So there is a scientific miracle just before this verse that talks about a natural phenomenon, and all of the sudden, we're talking about ships that are on seas like mountains ? That makes no sense... There must be a greater sense to this verse. Ships cannot be a favor of God because they are made by men, they float because of men...

Offline QuranSearchCom

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As'salamau Alaikum Everyone,

Brother Sama, I have uploaded your image above to the website and re-linked your image to permanently preserve it here.  Jazaka Allah Khayr.

Brother Muratydin, the Noble Verse here is a metaphor.  Aalaam was translated as mountains, but really JIBAAL is moutains.  We don't know what Aalaam also has from hidden meanings.  It is something that requires deeper researching.  I'll look into it using my dictionaries hopefully today, insha'Allah.

But everything in space is swimming.  Space is also filled with gravitational waves.  Earth is swimming in space.  So there could be a link there.

Jazakum Allah Khayr.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

TruthHasPrevailed

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Salam Alaykum everyone. I've always thought of this verse as referring to the icebergs. Because:

1- they float in water like ships
2- they are moved by wind or waves like ships with sails
3- they look pretty much like mountains but made of ice
4- they are a blessing from Allah for various reasons

And Allah knows best.

Offline murataydin

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Clearly, this verse cannot be about ships. The ''icebergs'' interpretation is pretty interesting. I don't speak arabic so I can't say much  :)

Offline QuranSearchCom

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You need more proofs than this brother.  The Glorious Quran does speak about comets and mountains of ice sent from Heaven:

www.answering-christianity.com/comets_of_ice_miracle.htm


If Allah Almighty wanted to speak about icebergs, then He would've made it clearer in this Noble Verse.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

TruthHasPrevailed

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Yes brother I am aware this needs more proof. I just mentioned it as a possibility and someone with more experience and knowledge can confirm it or deny it because I am not myself proficient in the arabic language like you.
Salam Alaykum

TruthHasPrevailed

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I can't even understand Lisan al-Arab just started learning arabic before 6 months  ;D

 

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