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Paul and Muhammad (PBUH)

 

     A rebuttal by Shadid.

 

Paul on Lying

I disagree with Sam, Paul is actually admitting to lying. We know this from His statements such as in 1Corinthians
9:19-23. Here Paul admits to FALSELY acting like certain types of people just to get them to accept his teachings.

" For though , I be free from all men, yet I have made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a jew, that I might gain the jews, to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under law, ( clear proof of his deceit as he said in Romans 10:4 " For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth" , yet he admits to pretending to be under the law just to trick and gain those who still believe in the law)." To them without law, I act like I am without law, that I might gain them that are without Law.To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by ALL MEANS( even deceitful means) save some. "

Next Sam says Paul claims it was deceitful men who slandered him. However we see earlier on in Acts 21:21-26 The Elders of the apostles ordered Paul to go and purify himself for teaching that the Jews should for sake Moses and no longer circumcise i.e , teaching his lies. In verse 24 of Acts 21 They say :

" Them take, and purify yourself with them ( the others brothers who need purification), and be at charges with them, that they shave their heads: and all may know that those things that they heard about you( your lies about no more circumcision and no more following Laws of Torah etc) are nothing ( i.e. were'nt true), But that you yourself also walkest orderly, and keepest the Law"


Now If Paul knew he was right in what he taught he should have protested and said, " I need no purification". However we see in Acts 21:26 " Then Paul took the men and the next day purified himself with them in the temple."

Now recall the elders of the disciples wanted him to do this so others would see that the things that Paul was teaching ( no more circumcison, No more law of torah) and he was actually teaching these things, But they wanted to stop further uproar and prevent the spread of his wrong teachings, by having him go in the temple and purify himself amd show others that the rumours were'nt true , even though they were true, but if people saw him still following the laws of temple purification the people would assume the rumours were " nothing"- Acts 21:24

We further see that Paul says in 2 Corinthians 12:16 " But be it so, I did not burden you: neverthe less, BEING CRAFTY( another word for tricky, cunning, deceitful), I caught you with GUILE( another word for insidious cunning or deceitfulness in attaining a goal).Paul here admits to catching with deceit, and trickery. So all the verses Sam gave regarding Pauls view on lying and deception, is nothing more than Pauls double talk.

Muhammad on lying

Now I cant see how Sam sees Surah 16: 106 and The story about Ammars family as underhanded deceit. I mean come on Sam, This is about people being tortured because of being Muslim, and here they are given permission to say what the torturers want to hear inorder to stop the torture. I mean, how could Sam miss that?? And take note that even though this permission was given, many of the oppressed and tortured Muslims chose death or continued torture rather than give the tortuers what they wanted ( No Compulsion in religion p 1,2 By Ali Zahi Ramadan)

Next Sam further Twist Hadith by again implying that Muhammad made allowances for under handed trickery or deceit. Again he is clearly wrong. He mentions the narration in which it is said that a person is not counted as a liar " If it is dealing with a battle ( what fool would tell his enemies the truth of their operations?? Would a captured Christian CIA agent tell the truth to enemy interrogators???) . The 2 nd case is for bringing about peace between to persons who had anomosity with eachother, and the 3rd case for a Husband to his wife or vice versa to bring about reconciliation. So we see the aims are not underhanded but honorable. Is it wrong to make peace with 2 people by saying " look so and so says he made a mistake and then go to the other and say such and such said he made a mistake, and by this they stop arguing and having ill feelings for each other?? And as for the 3rd, How many husband tell their wives " Your are the Most beautiful woman in the world, or when they go on in years, he says you still look the same as we met 30 years ago". Surely she may not really be the most beautiful woman in the world, and surely she has aged since 30 years ago, but it makes her feel good and keeps joy and peace in the house. So this is what is meant by these hadith. I mean come on Sam, are you blind, or are you just a deceiver like Paul?? I think you are the latter!

Next we are introduced to NON MUSLIM writer William Muir. He again repeats the same from what I dealt with previous, i .e the 3 cases, but a 4th is added. The 4th being really about battle and not ordinary travel as the reference is made to the battle of Tabuk and other battle in which Muhammad didnt want to tip off the enemy to their strategic military plans. Again Imagine Christians in the Pentagon being honest and truthful about Classified US Military operations.

Next a hadith in Sahih Bukhari volume 4, number 361 is mentioned. Again This hadith in no way shows any allowance for down and dirty underhanded deceit. The hadith shows That If a person said something they would or wouldnt do, Then later sees there is more benefit in doing other wise, then the oath should be done away with. Its similar to Jesus in Matthew 12 :1-13 in which The Pharisees had a problem with the actions of Jesus and his disciples on the sabbath. They were hungry and needed to eat so they plucked ears of corn and ate. The Pharisee in their lack of wisdom and insight saw this as wrong, But Jesus reminded them of a case with David and those with him doing that which was not normally allowed ( eating the bread of the temple which was only for the priest). But though they were wrong, they needed to break that rule rather than starve. Again Jesus healed a man, and they had an issue with that in this same chapter of Matthew 12:9-13. Again Jesus explained that it was more beneficial to save or heal ( a sheep , or more a man) Than stick to the normal practice of observing the rule of the sabbath. So again, Come on Sam, are you not reading these hadith throughly and with an open mind, or do you just have an axe to grind. I think its the latter, cause they are so clear as to what they are saying, I dont see how you could miss it.

Response To Allah being a deceiver

Next Sam makes a whole long drawn out issue of Surah 4:142 , Surah 2:9, Surah 3:54. Surah 8:30. He also goes into the word Makara( schemer). However It is so simple to see Sam is again the deceiver here. We see here in all these surahs that They show that the evil doers had plotted a underhanded plot or scheme against Allah , or Muhammad and the muslims, But Allah having knowledge of all things, Turns their plan and scheme against themselves. No where does it says Allah deceives people about the truth or plots against good and honest persons. Everyone of the surahs is in the context dealing with the plan of evil doers having their evil plan or scheme turned against themselves. Its similar to your bible Sam where in Jonah 3:10 we see God was going to do evil .
" And God repented of the EVIL, that he had said he would do unto them: and he did not do it" Jonah 3:10

So I could play Sams game and say "See, Your bible admits your God can do evil" . But The context doesnt mean evil in the context of low down satanic evil. Just as Allah scheming against the evil doers doesnt mean a deceitful satanic scheme by turning their under handed plot against themselves. Its so clear That Sam is either not Troughly reading what he sites, or he is intentionally ignoring the clear and easily understood meaning and context, inorder to try and slander Islam.

Muhammad on Husband Wife Relations

Sam had given a challenge for similar verses from the Quran commanding husbands to view their wives as their own bodies. Afterward Sam said he was confident( ignorant) that no such verses could be produced.

Well Sam , your wrong, see here :

"O mankind, Be dutiful to your Lord, who created you from a single person, and from him He created his wife, and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allah through whom you demand MUTUAL RIGHTS, and do not cut the ties of the wombs ( kinship)! Surely , Allah is ever an all watcher over you" Surah 4:1

Here it is clear that The spouses Have MUTUAL RIGHTS over each other.They are told they came from the same person ( adam).

" And Among his signs is this, that he created for you WIVES FROM AMONG YOURSELVES, that you may find repose and comfort in them, and He has put BETWEEN YOU ( husband and wife) AFFECTION and MERCY. Verily in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect" Surah 30:21.

So yet again another verse in which man is told the woman is to be seen as to himself as Allah said " He created for you WIVES FROM AMONG YOURSELVES".

It is through this bond that they are interconnected and through these bonds that some of their rights upon one another are established. (The Fiqh of Marriage p4 Jamal Zarabozo)

Based on these 2 clear verses from The Quran Sams Challenge is answered, and I say he should be removed from the " answering Islam " team since it has become clear his work is lacking in thorough research and honesty.

Responses to Sams -Muhammad on Husband and wife relations

Here Islam will answer back to some of the items Sam mentioned in this section.Surah 2:223 was mentioned in which it is stated that a husband may approach his wife when or how he wills. He followed it by giving a hadith connected to that verse from Sunan Abu Dawuud , Book 11, Number 2159 which gave the reason upon which this verse was revealed. At the end he says instead of respecting the Womans refusal to engage in a particular sexual position, This verse , Surah 2:223 was revealed.

However , I say why didnt the woman respect her husband since a different position caused no harm and her only reason was she was sticking to some ignorant custom that some people of the book, limited themselves to. Thus the verse was revealed to dispell the ignorant custom made up by some people of the book, and thus one should not feel shame or guilt for using some other position.

Next Sam quotes ;

" Women have such honorable rights as obligations, but their men have a degree above them" Surah 2:228

Allah explains why Men have a degree above the women in Surah 4:34, Come on Sam, you need to do better research, see here.

" Men are the PROTECTORS and MAINTAINERS of the women, with what Allah made some of them to excell others, and with what they (men) SPEND OUT OF THEIR WEALTH to support them"

So there is the reason. Plus , I mean Sam surely you dont take issue with this when your own bible says :

"Wives,submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the HUSBAND IS THE HEAD OF THE WIFE( not vice versa)" Ephesians 5:22,23

Concerning what the older women should teach the younger women, we read:

" To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, OBEDIENT to their own husbands" Titus 2:5

So surely No christian has a thing to say when your own scriptures say as well that the man is head of the women and the good Christian women is OBEDIENT to her Husband.

Sam then went on to quote some things from the comments of Ibn Kathir, but I dont see problems other than Sams lack of comprehension of what he was reading. For example, He quotes Surah 3:14 and boldens the part that reads " fair in the eyes of men ( Meaning from mans point of view) IS THE LOVE OF THE THINGS THEY COVET: WOMEN, ( Sam didnt bolden the rest I wonder why???, but the verse doesnt just stop at women) and sons; heaped up hoards of gold and silver etc..." He then boldens towards the end of the verse " SUCH ARE THE POSSESSIONS OF THIS WORLDS LIFE ( meaning these are the materialistic things people desire in this earthly life) but with Allah is the best of the goals" Surah 3:14.

Its so clear by that this verse is saying that man in his materialistic ways seeks the women, the sons, the wealth, etc.. But the best Goal is not the aquiring of those things, the best goal is with Allah in the hereafter.This is in line with Ibn Kathirs explanation, plus the next verse Surah 3:15 proves that as it clearly says;

" Say: shall I inform you of things BETTER THAN THOSE ( better than those things mentioned in the previous verse that in mans eyes he loves to have and posess)" The things that are better are that which is obtained in the hereafter as a reward to those who believed and did good deeds and received Allahs grace and mercy.

I mean come on you dont need to be a highly educated islamic scholar to understand what the verse is saying. Really Answering islam, Sam should be removed from your team as his work is very poor and ill researched as Im so clearly showing. Alhamdulilah.

Other errors and lack of comprehension of Sam include a misquote of a very well known Hadith. Sam quoted it as " The best members of this Ummah are those who HAVE THE MOST WIVES" This is a clear error. The Correct hadith states;

" The best of this Ummah are those who ARE BEST TO THEIR WIVES"( not who have the most wives) Hadith of At Tirmidih.

His lack of comprehension shows again as he quotes some Hadith in which he keeps emboldening the parts that says, women. He is playing a mind manipulation game here getting you to think that these hadith are saying Muhammad Loved women in the context of a Playboy womanizer. However that is not the case. The true meaning is That he loved women out of sincere concern for them and he was given revelation that improved life for them, The Quran was the 1st to give Women a right to inheritance (Surah 4:7, 11,12 & 176). The Quran put an end to The Female infanticide that the Arabs practiced ( Surah 16:59, Surah 43:17, Surah 81:8,9),in which out of shame for having female babies , they would bury the female infants alive . Muhammad instructed his followers to educate the females ( Bukhari Hadith V 1.97, Bukhari V3.720, Bukhari V4.255, Bukhari V4 .655, Bukhari V 7.20). Muhammad showed his love for women, by instructing his followers that their Mothers get 3 times the honor over their fathers. (Bukhari V 8.2, Abu Dawud 5120). So yes we see Muhammad did indeed love women.

Lastly He quotes or rather MISQUOTES surah 4:34. He quotes it as saying "Men are superior to Women". However All the translations I have state the arabic word "qawwamun" as Maintainers or maintainers and protectors which is correct , see ( English -Arabic translator Dictionary p 534,535 By F. Steingass). Sams is wrong, its doesnt say men are superior, but does say Men have authority over women, just like I showed earlier your bible says the same thing, so take issue with your own book if you have a problem with that.

And of course the famous, " Its says beat them" part of the verse of Surah 4:34.Glad to see he didnt leave out the fact that it refers to a disobedient wife of which there were 2 prior measures mentioned inorder to bring about order before it says to beat them. All of the Scholars of islam have clearly explained that this verse in no way is saying to beat upon women such as we hear about for example in the US, where women have Black eyes, are sent to the Hospital, broken limbs etc.Heres what is said about it.

"One of the Great INJUSTICES is severe physical abuse.... The ayah in the Quran where Allahs gives the husband to "beat Her lightly" is grossly taken out of context.-( "Prevalent Problems in Muslim Marriages" p19 By Rabiyah Abdul Khair)

" And if those measures miserably Fail( The 2 prior measures given in the verse), then chastisement is allowed, BUT IT SHOULD BE MILD CHASTISEMENT, AND NOT A SEVERE ONE CAUSING HARM TO ANY PART OF THE BODY"-( Adul Hameed Siddiqui , Translator and Commentator , THE HOLY QURAN, Lahore: Islamic Book Centre part III, p323)

" They are to be taken by the hand and disciplined"- ( Al Durr Al Manthoor Fi Al tafseer Al Ma thoor , Vol 2 p151 by Al Syuti)

" The striking MUST NOT BE a vicious striking and must be done with something like a handkerchief, siwaak( Toothstick), or hand" -( The Fiqh Of marriage p244 By Jamal Zarabozo)

And of Course the best is from Muhammad himself , which is why the others say Its a " Light beating"- " ....Give them a Beating without causing injury to them" -(Al Bukhari and Muslim).

So its clear . I end by Saying, its truly disturbing to see the either willful misinformation, or just out right ignorance of Sam in his attempts to slander this way of life we call ISLAM. Alhamdulilah, the responses are clear and exposes , the so called " answering Islam" and shows they have not really answered anything. They have just thrown out misinformation that with careful and thorough, honest reading can easily be exposed.

MrDebate_The_ Hate/ Bro. Shadid

 

 

 

 

 

Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Islam and the Noble Quran - Questions and Answers.

Contradictions and History of Corruption in the Bible.

Sami Zaatari's Rebuttals section.


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