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Messages - Idris

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151
As-Salam Aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketu,

brothers I think I have found something which clearly shows that the Isaiah Scroll (or the scaned photos) was indeed manipulated ! I will insha'Allah presents here my findings and you will judge for yourself

Take care,
Ahmed

152
Salam Aleykom,

Brother Sharif, here is an interesting verse from Isaiah 1:2

Izj 1:2  Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the LORD has spoken: "Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me.

Notice that in the first loft, heaven and earth are summoned to be a witnesses in the process brought by God to His people. In one of the Hittites's treaties - after a long list of divine witnesses - are mentioned mountains, rivers, the sea, the sky and the earth, and wind and clouds !

This is by the way a case against Christians who says that the oaths - by heaven, earth etc. - in the Quran, has a paganism root (pointing to kahin)
Salam

153
Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Idris,

No, I am not familira with the latin expression "Vicarius Filii Dei".  Please educate us on it.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Salam Aleykom,

Actually not me brother, but it is Michael Scheifler who will educate us about the meaning of this latin expression by providing a detailed research. Be sure that Michael’s claims are supported by a powerful historical references (from a rare and authoritative Vatican documents), I can confirm it since I've verified those astonishing sources, and you have to see it for yourself:

http://biblelight.net/666.htm

Michael accepts any challenge in this matter! That’s why I was asking who is the author of the false claim that 666 is refering to the arabic writing ‘’In the name of Allah’’ to confronte him with Michael’s research in this issue, so that next time he will learn for his mistakes. Oh, by the way, Michael even exposed the lies of some Christians who tried to refute his claims in this issue:

http://biblelight.net/envoy.htm
http://www.biblelight.net/EI-139+140.htm

You’ve been looking for a strong counter ? Well, you got it.
Brother Osama, this is a must share! I recommend you to put it in answering-christianity website as a challenge to those claiming that 666 is refering to the arabic „bismi Allah”. Poor Walid Shoebat, he will be disappointed. So, what do you think brothers, should we call him to enter the debate with Michael Scheifler concerning 666 ? ;)

154
Salam Aleykom,

I was waiting for the answer on my post "The claim that Greek number 666 is a reference to ‘’In the name of Allah’’. Perhaps you did not notice, but it's OK :)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=1997.msg8208#new

Let me share with you some very interesting informations, but first I will ask: did you heard before about the latin expression "Vicarius Filii Dei" ?

155
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

This fabrication had been thoroughly exposed to be a lie, even by the Christians themselves, at:  www.answering-christianity.com/666.htm.  The formula is a lie, and the letters didn't even come until 1000 years after Jesus.  The originals didn't even have the current letters that they use, and even the current ones don't say what they say.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Wa aleykom as-Salam wa rahmatullah brother, I know akhi that this is a fabrication. I Just wanted to know who is the autor of that false claim. So that guy he's named Walid Shoebat ?

156
Salam Aleykom,

who is the author of the claim that the Greek inscription of 666 refers to the arabic formula "In the name of Allah" ?

157

I will also put insha'Allah some another photos showing strange additions to the text ! I've included my objections to it.

Salam

158
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris,

Interesting find, akhi.  It seems that there might be a modification done to the scroll?  Is that what you're suggesting?  We know that the scroll had been kept by Israel. 

Regards,
Osama Abdallah

Salam Aleykom,

yes brother, that's what I'am suggesting. The Great Isaiah Scroll for over forty years was under lock and key, deep underground in Jerusalem. In 2008, for the 60th anniversary of the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, the Israel Antiquities Authority displayed the scroll. Why after 40 years ?? The Nag Hammadi Library – which contains much larger volume of documents than DSS of Qumran – was discovered in 1947. The Nag Hammadi Library within less than 3 years was completely translated and published into the world unlike the Dead Sea Scrolls, over 40 years have passed since they were discovered, and they have yet not fully disclosed to the scholars (I've heard somewhere about 9 scroll that are still unopened!). There have been major complains made by Christian scholars from universities all of the world that the Israeli government in agreement with the Vatican Church did not allowed scholars to examine those scrolls (from some youtube video)! Why ? The answer is because they were afraid that some of those scrolls copies might contain the name of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) which would be a very dangerous news. Certainly, it's not in their business to show his description (after they silenced his advent for centuries). The qoutation below in arabic (I've posted before) is very interesting and in my eyes is a precious testimony proving that the Israeli government hiding the true Isaiah scroll from the world:


جاء في صحيفة" المسلمون" الشهيرة عدد 1229 الصفحة الخامسة بتاريخ الاثنين 1 ربيع الأول 1412 هـ الموافق ل 9 سبتمبر (أيلول) 1991 م، تحت عنوان" الدكتور محمد معروف الدواليبي- الذي كان عضوا في الحوار- يروي قصة الحوار بين الإسلام والمسيحية، كيف بدأ وعلام انتهى"- ونحن ننقل ما في هذه الصحيفة من كتاب د. شوقي أبو خليل" الحوار دائما.." ص 11. (دار الفكر) مع بعض التصرف- أنّه قد عثر في مغاور قمران شمالي البحر الميت على مجموعة من المخطوطات، نجد بينها سفر إشعياء الصحيح بكامله، في حين أنّ المنشور في العهد القديم هو جزء منه.
وفي سفر إشعياء المكتشف جاء حرفيا: " بعد المسيح يأتي نبيّ عربي من بلاد فاران- بلاد إسماعيل- وعلى اليهود أن يتّبعوه، وعلامته أنّه إن نجا من القتل، فإنه النبي المنتظر، لأنّه يفلت من السيف المسلول على رقبته، ويعود إليها بعد ذلك بعشرة آلاف قدّيس".
لقد أصدر البابا بولس السادس سنة 1965 م وثيقة هامة، كانت بمثابة اعتراف رسمي نصراني بالدين الإسلامي، ولأول مرّة، جاء فيها: " إنّ كلّ من آمن بعد اليوم بالله الخالق السموات والأرض، وربّ إبراهيم وموسى، فهو ناج عند الله، وداخل في سلامه، وفي مقدّمتهم المسلمون".
وبدعوة رسميّة سافر وفد إسلامي إلى الفاتيكان، واجتمع بالكاردينال بيمونللي وزير الدولة في حكومة الفاتيكان فيما يتعلّق بالعلاقات بين الإسلام والنصرانية، وبدأ الحوار على الرغم من طلب السفير" الإسرائيلي" في روما وقف الحوار، وبعد انتهاء اللقاءات المتعددة بين عدد من العلماء المسلمين وكبار مسؤولي الفاتيكان، وقف

Notice from the text: "...have been found in the Qumran caves in the north of the Dead Sea, a collection of old manuscripts, among them we find the true scroll containing the whole of Isaiah, while that given in the present Old Testament is only a small part of it."

Also a very interesting info gives Dr. Fred Miller, a Christian scholar who discovered some controversial editorial additions to Isaiah scroll of the Qumran:

In many editorial markings (added after the scroll was enscribed) and altered letters, there are numerals, and masoretic punctuation, and masoretic vowel marks and red ink marks that are controversial because they are anacronistic, if a date of storing the scroll is given as corresponding with the end of the Essene community to whom they originally belonged. Most of these markings are more consistant with the Middle Ages than with the Macabbean or Hasmonean period to which the scrolls have been ascribed

See in detail: http://www.moellerhaus.com/Controversy/Controversy.htm

What do you think now ? Could really this Isaiah scroll comes from 200 years B.C. without clear mentions of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)? It is obvious that this so called-Isaiah Scroll was tempered with! And why Vatican always has something to do with the Israeli governement ? It seems they work together.


159

Ok, let me help you...(the same photo with color inversion)




160
Update from Osama Abdallah:

Fearing that brother Idris' invaluable images throughout this thread would eventually get deleted from the websites that he linked them from, I went ahead and backed up this entire thread to the following link:

www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1996.htm  (all images)

Other related threads by brother Idris:

The names Ahmed and Mohammed in Jewish document that predates Prophet Mohammed ?
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2304.msg10493.html#msg10493

Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1996.msg8197.html#msg8197

Historical proof of Mecca existence B.C.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2254.msg9964.html#msg9964

May Allah Almighty bless brother Idris for his invaluable research and work.  Ameen.

End of Update.





Salam Aleykom,

I have observed some strange things in the so-called Great Isaiah Scroll. I'll put the first photo and just tell me what you can notice:



161
Salam Aleykom,

baraka'Allahu fikum brother Osama and brother Submit :) May Allah reward you for your helps ! Amin
By the way, how it is possible that Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) who was mentioned in the Bible (as a Servant and Messenger of God), would be a liar ? It is a nonsense! Only fools would believe in such things.

Salam

162
Salam Aleykom,

accidently I came acroos this stupid video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27LelsZuA_E

What we, muslims have to say about that ? Personally, I think it is impossible! There is many hadith proving that Muhammad was honest, truthfull etc. and even his enemies supported such claim, but the case from the video above is untypical ! Can someone refute this ? Please, watch it until the end.

Djazakum Allahu khayran my brothers and sisters

163
Salam Aleykom,

Djazak'Allahu khayran akhi :) insha'Allah it will help !

164
Salam Aleykom,

Another hadith that my christian friend ask me to explain:

1. The Prophet (ﷺ) said: on the day of the conquest of Mecca: There are four persons whom I shall not give protection in the sacred and non-sacred territory. He then named them. There were two singing girls of al-Maqis; one of them was killed and the other escaped and embraced Islam.

Abu Dawud said: I could not understand its chain of narrators from Ibn al-'Ala' as I liked.   <--- what he mean by that ?
http://sunnah.com/abudawud/15

2. - It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes. He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like). So, Muhammad b. Maslama came to Ka'b and talked to him, referred to the old friendship between them and said: This man (i. e. the Holy Prophet) has made up his mind to collect charity (from us) and this has put us to a great hardship. When be heard this, Ka'b said: By God, you will be put to more trouble by him. Muhammad b. Maslama said: No doubt, now we have become his followers and we do not like to forsake him until we see what turn his affairs will take. I want that you should give me a loan. He said: What will you mortgage? He said: What do you want? He said: Pledge me your women. He said: You are the most handsome of the Arabs; should we pledge our women to you? He said: Pledge me your children. He said: The son of one of us may abuse us saying that he was pledged for two wasqs of dates, but we can pledge you (cur) weapons. He said: All right. Then Muhammad b. Maslama promised that he would come to him with Harith, Abu 'Abs b. Jabr and Abbad b. Bishr. So they came and called upon him at night. He came down to them. Sufyan says that all the narrators except 'Amr have stated that his wife said: I hear a voice which sounds like the voice of murder. He said: It is only Muhammad b. Maslama and his foster-brother, Abu Na'ila. When a gentleman is called at night even it to be pierced with a spear, he should respond to the call. Muhammad said to his companions: As he comes down, I will extend my hands towards his head and when I hold him fast, you should do your job. So when he came down and he was holding his cloak under his arm, they said to him: We sense from you a very fine smell. He said: Yes, I have with me a mistress who is the most scented of the women of Arabia. He said: Allow me to smell (the scent on your head). He said: Yes, you may smell. So he caught it and smelt. Then he said: Allow me to do so (once again). He then held his head fast and said to his companions: Do your job. And they killed him. http://sunnah.com/muslim/32/146

3. - A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (ﷺ) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (ﷺ) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (ﷺ) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood. http://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/11

4. The command to fight the people until they say "La ilaha illallah Muhammad Rasul-Allah", and establish Salat, and pay the Zakat, and believe in everything that the prophet (saws) brought. Whoever does that, his life and his wealth are protected except by its right, and his secrets are entrusted to Allah, the most high. Fighting those who withhold Zakat or other than that is one of the duties of Islam and the Iman should be concerned with the Laws of Islam

5. It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that when the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) breathed his last and Abu Bakr was appointed as his successor (Caliph), those amongst the Arabs who wanted to become apostates became apostates. 'Umar b. Khattab said to Abu Bakr:

Why would you fight against the people, when the Messenger of Allah declared: I have been directed to fight against people so long as they do not say: There is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was granted full protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right? His (other) affairs rest with Allah. Upon this Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I would definitely fight against him who severed prayer from Zakat, for it is the obligation upon the rich. By Allah, I would fight against them even to secure the cord (used for hobbling the feet of a camel) which they used to give to the Messenger of Allah (as zakat) but now they have withheld it. Umar b. Khattab remarked: By Allah, I found nothing but the fact that Allah had opened the heart of Abu Bakr for (perceiving the justification of) fighting (against those who refused to pay Zakat) and I fully recognized that the (stand of Abu Bakr) was right.
http://sunnah.com/muslim/1

6. It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said:
I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.

7. Narrated Jubair bin Haiya:

Umar sent the Muslims to the great countries to fight the pagans. When Al-Hurmuzan embraced Islam, `Umar said to him. "I would like to consult you regarding these countries which I intend to invade." Al-Hurmuzan said, "Yes, the example of these countries and their inhabitants who are the enemies. of the Muslims, is like a bird with a head, two wings and two legs; If one of its wings got broken, it would get up over its two legs, with one wing and the head; and if the other wing got broken, it would get up with two legs and a head, but if its head got destroyed, then the two legs, two wings and the head would become useless. The head stands for Khosrau, and one wing stands for Caesar and the other wing stands for Faris. So, order the Muslims to go towards Khosrau." So, `Umar sent us (to Khosrau) appointing An-Nu`man bin Muqrin as our commander. When we reached the land of the enemy, the representative of Khosrau came out with forty-thousand warriors, and an interpreter got up saying, "Let one of you talk to me!" Al-Mughira replied, "Ask whatever you wish." The other asked, "Who are you?" Al-Mughira replied, "We are some people from the Arabs; we led a hard, miserable, disastrous life: we used to suck the hides and the date stones from hunger; we used to wear clothes made up of fur of camels and hair of goats, and to worship trees and stones. While we were in this state, the Lord of the Heavens and the Earths, Elevated is His Remembrance and Majestic is His Highness, sent to us from among ourselves a Prophet whose father and mother are known to us. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." (Al-Mughira, then blamed An-Nu`man for delaying the attack and) An-Nu' man said to Al-Mughira, "If you had participated in a similar battle, in the company of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) he would not have blamed you for waiting, nor would he have disgraced you. But I accompanied Allah's Apostle in many battles and it was his custom that if he did not fight early by daytime, he would wait till the wind had started blowing and the time for the prayer was due (i.e. after midday). http://sunnah.com/bukhari/58/3


About Prphet's marriage with Aisha:

It was narrated from 'Aishah that the Messenger of Allah married her when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine. http://sunnah.com/nasai/26/60

It was narrated from 'Aishah that the Messenger of Allah married her when she was nine and he died when she was eighteen years old.
http://sunnah.com/nasai/26/63

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old, and he (the Holy Prophet) took her to his house when she was nine, and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old
http://sunnah.com/muslim/16/84

The Prophet (ﷺ) wrote the (marriage contract) with `Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). http://sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93

Just post according to the numbers.

165
Salam Aleykom,

Do we have an explanation to the hadiths about killing apostates posted below ?:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." http://sunnah.com/bukhari/87/17

- Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to `Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn `Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" http://sunnah.com/bukhari/88/5

- Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet (ﷺ) along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash`ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, 'O Abu Musa (O `Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or `Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu`adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu`adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu`adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu`adh to sit down but Mu`adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'" http://sunnah.com/bukhari/88

- It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that when the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) breathed his last and Abu Bakr was appointed as his successor (Caliph), those amongst the Arabs who wanted to become apostates became apostates. 'Umar b. Khattab said to Abu Bakr:
Why would you fight against the people, when the Messenger of Allah declared: I have been directed to fight against people so long as they do not say: There is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was granted full protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right? His (other) affairs rest with Allah. Upon this Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I would definitely fight against him who severed prayer from Zakat, for it is the obligation upon the rich. By Allah, I would fight against them even to secure the cord (used for hobbling the feet of a camel) which they used to give to the Messenger of Allah (as zakat) but now they have withheld it. Umar b. Khattab remarked: By Allah, I found nothing but the fact that Allah had opened the heart of Abu Bakr for (perceiving the justification of) fighting (against those who refused to pay Zakat) and I fully recognized that the (stand of Abu Bakr) was right.
http://sunnah.com/muslim/1

- The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “It is not permissible to spill the blood of a Muslim except in three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery, a life for a life, and the one who forsakes his religion and separates from the community. http://sunnah.com/nawawi40/14

Djazakum'Allah khayran brothers

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