Search and find articles and topics quickly and accurately! See different advanced ways to search for articles on this site.
My first rebuttal:
What language did Jesus really speak during his ministry?
It's very important to know that the Hebrew and Greek letters that were found, are only translations that were written 150 to 300 years after Jesus. It is important to know that Jesus did not speak Greek. So therefore, the Greek letters are nothing but a translation (which could have many faults in it) from Aramaic to Greek. Same applies to Hebrew. When you translate a doctrine that was written hundreds of years after the fact into another language, then you can't really claim that your sources are 100% correct. As a matter of a fact, claiming 50% would be even too much.
Aramaic Language, Semitic language closely related to Hebrew. Originally the language
of the Aramaeans (see Aram), it was used, in many dialectical forms, in Mesopotamia and
Syria before 1000BC and later became the lingua franca of the Middle East (see
Assyro-Babylonian Language). Aramaic survived the fall of Nineveh (612BC) and Babylon
(539BC) and remained the official language of the Persian Empire (539-337BC). Ancient
inscriptions in Aramaic have been found over a vast area extending from Egypt to China.
Before the Christian era, Aramaic had become the language of the Jews in Palestine. Jesus preached in Aramaic, and parts of the Old Testament and much of the rabbinical literature were written in that language. Christian Aramaic, usually called Syriac, also developed an extensive literature, especially from the 4th to 7th centuries.
Aramaic began to decline in the 7th century AD. Aramaic survives today in Eastern and Western dialects, mostly as the language of Christians living in a few scattered communities in Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran.
(From Encarta Encyclopedia )
Please visit: History of man's corruption in the Bible. See why the current first bibles conflict with each others.
The Trinitarians' weak attempts to prove that the Old Testament is a book of trinity:
Please also visit brother Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi's great rebuttal. He did a wonderful job at it, may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
This is one of the sections that the untruthful members of answering islam failed to reply to fully. Instead they only chose few verses out of the many below and replied to them. It's funny how their points (in their rebuttal) were already answered before they even mentioned them from their own actual Hebrew sources that they use!. The Hebrew word "Echad" which means one for instance had been fully explained on my site before they even thought about the reply.
Here is my rebuttal to them:
Now in Isaiah 9:6 "......Mighty God,....."
Trinitarians confuse this mistranslated and misinterpreted "Might God" expression with Jehovah or Allah Almighty. They think it means the actual GOD. Please note that in the "Kings James Version" Bible, the word "Mighty" in Isaiah 9:6 is "mighty". The only unique title given to Allah Almighty in the Bible is: Jehovah, GOD, and GOD LORD. "God", "Mighty One", and "Most Mighty" are magnifying titles that were given to other people in the Bible that do not refer to Allah Almighty (GOD) himself. Read further down !.
Does the Bible in the Old Testament confirm trinity?
Let us look at Mark 12:29 "The First is, "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One." Jesus, according to the source of Christianity, in the records that we have of his sayings, never made a claim to be divine. In an answer to a question on what the first commandment was, he replied by saying God is One. Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 6:4. Therefore, let us examine the Hebrew of this verse:
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4)" Trinitarian Christians claim that this verse states that the LORD is a "compound one"; he is multiple entities or objects combined together forming one GOD. However, since I do not speak Hebrew, I left it for the Hebrew speaking Jews to respond to them:
The following question and answer were taken from www.jewsforjudaism.org:
Question: The word 'echad, "one," is used in the Jewish
Scriptures in either a compound or absolute sense. In what sense is 'echad used in the
Shema, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" (Deuteronomy 6:4)?
Answer: In such verses as Genesis 1:5: "And there was evening and there was morning, one day," and Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh," the term 'echad, "one," refers to a compound united one. However, 'echad often also means an absolute one. This is illustrated by such verses as 2 Samuel 13:30: "Absolom has slain all the king's sons, and there is not one of them left"; 2 Samuel 17:12: "And of all the men that are with him we will not leave so much as one"; Exodus 9:7: "There did not die of the cattle of Israel even one"; 2 Samuel 17:22: "There lacked not one of them that was not gone over the Jordan"; Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother." Clearly, the word "one" used in these verses means an absolute one and is synonymous with the word yachid, "the only one," "alone." It is in this sense, with even greater refinement, that 'echad is used in Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One." Here, 'echad is used as a single, absolute, unqualified one. There is no mention of a triune god.
The following question and answer were taken from www.jewsforjudaism.org:
Question: Do Deuteronomy 6:4 and Psalms 110:1 teach the Trinitarian plurality of God?
Answer: By rendering Psalms 110:1 as, ". . . the Lord said to my Lord . . ."
Christians argue that Jesus is greater than David and is not only the Messiah but is part
of a Trinitarian godhead as well (see Matthew 22:42-45, Mark 12:35-37, Luke 20:41-44, Acts
2:34-36, Hebrews 1:13). Yet, a careful examination finds their hypothesis to be totally
Since le-David, in verse 1, does not always mean "written by David," but sometimes "concerning David" or "in the style of David," it cannot be said with certainty that the preposition le, often translated "of," actually indicates "composed by David." Further investigation is necessary in order to understand its meaning as governed by the context of this psalm.
Let us examine Psalm 72. It was written by David "for," or "concerning," Solomon (cf. verses 1 and 20), yet the Hebrew contains an introductory phrase similar to the one found in Psalm 110. The introductory statement, li- S'hlomo, stresses that the psalm is "concerning" Solomon rather than that it is by Solomon. Even more significant is 2 Samuel 22:51 and Psalms 144:10, where David speaks of himself in the third person. Accordingly, there is every indication that the proper translation of Psalms 110:1 is: "A Psalm concerning David. HaShem says to my master ['adoni]: 'Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.'" David is writing this psalm from the perspective of the individual who is going to recite it. From this perspective, David, as king, is appropriately referred to as "my master." The claim that David is actually (or also) referring to Jesus by the phrase "my master" is not supported by the text.
The privilege of sitting at the right hand is a mark of distinction (1 Kings 2:19). When God invites David to "sit at My right hand," it is to show the privileged position enjoyed by David in his relationship with God. It is not to be taken as literally indicating sitting at God's right hand. The terminology "right hand" is here used as an expression of God's favoritism toward David.
From a Christian perspective: Does the name of God (HaShem), translated as "the Lord" in many English versions of Psalms 110:1, refer to "God the Father" or to "God the Son" or does it refer to all three members of the Trinity? Christians are divided on the answer.
Concerning the word 'Elohaynu ("our God"), which appears in the Shema, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord [HaShem] our God, the Lord [HaShem] is One ['Echad]" (Deuteronomy 6:4), most Christians maintain that it is plural and should be understood in its literal sense as "our Gods," but in the sense of a "triunity." For this reason, they often interpret the verse as: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our Gods, the Lord is a compound unity."
From this Christian explanation of the Shema, it follows that "the Lord" (HaShem) could not refer to either "God the Father" or "God the Son" alone, but must refer to all three members of the "triunity" as a whole. This being the case, how is it possible for Christians to maintain that the phrase "to my Lord" (as commonly translated in Christian Bibles) refers to Jesus? If "my Lord" refers to the second member of the supposed "triunity," Jesus, then who is the first "Lord" mentioned in the verse? If "the Lord" (HaShem) in the Shema is a "triunity" united in the divine name, that is, "the Lord is our Gods," the first "Lord" in Psalms 110:1 must also refer to the united "triunity." If this is so, then the phrase "to my Lord" automatically excludes Jesus, who allegedly is already included in the first part of the verse, "the Lord."
Furthermore, if the second "Lord," supposedly Jesus, is sitting next to the first "Lord," the triune godhead or two-thirds of it, or any aggregate of it, he cannot be part of it. That which exists outside of God cannot be God.
The following question and answer were taken from www.jewsforjudaism.org
Question: Doesn't Psalms 110:1 show that the Messiah will not
only be greater than David but must also be a divine being?
Answer: Psalms 110:1 states: "A Psalm concerning David. HaShem says to my master: 'Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.'" There is no problem with accepting that one's descendants can rise to a more exalted position than we possess at present. There is no problem with David accepting that the Messiah will be greater than he is. But, there is nothing in this verse to show that David is referring to the Messiah when he writes 'adoni, "my master," "my lord." Moreover, there is nothing in David's words to indicate that the individual he refers to as "my master" is a divine being. David "concerning" himself wrote Psalm 110 poetically in the third person. Christians explain this verse based on New Testament exegesis. The Marcan Jesus says:
How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself said by the Holy Spirit; "The Lord [kyrios] said to my Lord [kyrio mou], 'Sit at My right hand, until I put your enemies beneath your feet.' David himself calls him 'Lord,' how is he then his son? (Mark 12:35-37).
Mark's rendering uses the Greek word kyrios, "lord," twice in the sentence, and the Christian translations into English capitalize the initial letter of the word to read "Lord" in both instances. Jesus' discourse is only possible if he and those he spoke to were conversing in Greek. The exegetical problems that Mark's Jesus refers to are only apparent in the Greek rendering and renderings from the Greek into other languages. In the Greek text, the initial kyrios is a reference to "the Lord," that is, God, and translates the Tetragrammaton (Y- H-V-H, the four letter name of God often referred to in Hebrew as HASHEM--THE NAME). The second kyrios, renders 'adoni, "my master," "my lord" (which according to Mark's understanding refers to "the Christ"). That is, the Greek, kyrios, is used to render two separate and distinct Hebrew words in the Greek translation. The confusion it creates in Greek does not exist in the Hebrew original. As a result, the Marcan Jesus' exegesis is non-existent in the Hebrew and incorrect in its understanding of the Greek rendering.
Let us look at Psalms 45:3 "(David) Grid your sword upon (your) thigh, O mighty one, with your dignity and your splendor." Here we see that David in Psalm 45:3 was called "O mighty one". Other Bibles have it as "O Mighty One". It doesn't mean that David is Allah Almighty or Jehovah. It's just a Biblical expression to magnify David and to show his power and mightiness. David was GOD's beloved and begotten son. GOD chose David and called him the "O Mighty God". Please note that the "King James Version" Bible says "O most mighty". We all know that God is the most mighty, and yet King David was called "most mighty". This is a Biblical expression to only magnify King David. If this expression was given to Jesus, then Trinitarians today would use it to try to prove that Jesus is God.
Let us look at Psalms 45:7 "You (David) have loved righteousness and you hate wickedness. That is why God (David), your God (Jehovah), has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners." In this verse we see that David was called God. Of course, this doesn't make David Allah Almighty or Jehovah himself. It's just an expression to magnify and glorify King David.
Let us also look at Psalm 24:8 "Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle." Here we see that the word "mighty" was used this time to magnify Jehovah and not any man. The word mighty is just an expression and it is not just meant for GOD alone. Notice that the author of the (NIV Bible) decided not to capitalize the word "mighty" in this verse, even though it is referring to Allah Almighty or Jehovah himself.
Let us look at 2 Corinthians 4:4 "Among whom (Satan) the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers....". The word "god" in this verse is Hotheos (the same exact word in John 1:1. The NIV Bible author wrote "God" in John 1:1 and not "god") in Greek but the translators translate it with a small "g" instead of capital.
Mislead Views from Christians: When I debate with Christians about this "God" expression given to Jesus compared to other Prophets and people, they claim that the word "God" with a capital "G" refers to God himself, and the word "god" with small "g" refers to humans. They also claim that they came to this type of translation from the Greek translation. Some lies and discrepancies had been inserted into the Bible through capitalizing the letter "G" when it is supposed to be a small "g" when referring to Jesus:
Let us look at John 1:1 "In the
beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." This is often presented from the Gospel of
John to prove that Jesus was God. There are however several problems with this claim: By this verse it is assumed that Jesus was the
"word" and since the word was God and became flesh, Jesus is God. The statement
that John reproduced in his gospel however was uttered not by John but by a certain Philo
of Alexandria, years before Jesus or John were born. It is therefore completely unlikely
that Philo was even remotely referring to Jesus.
There is also another reason for not capitalizing the "G" in John 1:1, considering the Greek of the above verse which disproves the assertion that Jesus is referred to as God in the verse. In the verse above, the first time the word God is used, the Greek is HOTHEOS (the same exact word given to Satan as God in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The NIV Bible Author wrote "god" for Satan instead of "God"), which means The God. The second time the word God is used,"....and the word was God," the word for God is TONTHEOS, which means "a god". Europeans have evolved a system of capital and small letters non-existent in Greek. The God, HOTHEOS is translated as God with a capital G, whereas Tontheos, which means A or ANY God is translated with a small g, god. In this case however, we see the unlawful translators trying to prove Jesus being God by putting capital G for both whereas it doesn't belong in the case of the "word".
So can we trust the current English Translations? Given that facts above about verse John 1:1, how can we expect from an ordinary English speaking Christian who wants to spread his religion with all his heart honestly and faithfully to understand this lie of capitalizing the small "g" in John 1:1 and other verses, and not capitalizing the capital "M" in the word "mighty" in Psalm 24:8 and the "g" in 2 Corinthians 4:4 (for Satan) for instance? Must we allow our faith to be all based on what other authors decide to insert from their own personal views into the Bible?
Jesus saying "I and the Father are One.":
From Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's work; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
Let us look at John 10:30 "I
(Jesus) and the Father are One." This verse is severely
misunderstood and is taken out of context, because beginning at verse John 10:23 we read (in the context of 10:30) about Jesus talking to
the Jews. In verse John 10:28-30, talking about his followers
as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them
out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able
to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus.
Also let us look at verse John 17:20-22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in
them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE". In this verse, the same word ONE used, the Greek, HEN is used, not only to describe Jesus and the Father but to describe Jesus, the Father and eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus. So here if that implies equality, we have a unique case of 13 Gods.
Of the verse in question, "I and the Father are One" in (John 10:30), we also need to take note of the verses following the 30th verse in the text. In those verses, the Jews accuse Jesus falsely of claiming to be God by these words. He however replies, proving their accusation wrong by their own text: "The Jews answered him saying,'For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because that thou being a man, makest thyself a God '" (John 10:33).
Jesus replies to this accusation saying: "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I said ye are gods. If He can call them gods, unto whom the word of God came, say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, "Thou blasphemeth," because I said I am the son of God?'" (John 10:34-36).
Let us look at Acts 2:22 "O you
men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among
you..." Peter in the Book of Acts testifies about Jesus. Jesus thus even to his disciples, as to early Christians, not
poisoned by Pauline doctrine, was a man, not a God.
Question: In John 10:30 Jesus says, "I and the Father are
one [hen]." Doesn't this show that they are one in essence?
This statement does not suggest either a dual or triune deity. What John's Jesus meant by the word hen ("one") becomes clear from his prayer concerning the apostles: "That they may be one [hen], just as we are one [hen]" (John 17:22), which means that they should be united in agreement with one another as he (Jesus) is always united in agreement with God, as stated: "I [Jesus] always do the things that are pleasing to Him [God]" (John 8:29).
There is thus no implication that Jesus and God, or the twelve apostles are to be considered as of one essence.
Is Jesus Immanu-el?
From Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's work; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
Let us look at Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore,
the Lord himself will give you a sign, behold a will conceive and bear a child and shall
call his name Immanu-el." It is claimed that this verse was a prophecy
about the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary. It is further claimed that since the word
Immanuel means "God with us," the person being talked about, i.e Jesus was God.
The word translated as "virgin" is the wrong translation of the Hebrew
word ALMAH. The word ALMAH in Hebrew means "young woman." The correct Hebrew
word for virgin is BETHULAH. Since many young women begot children since those words were
penned, it is not at all necessary that those words should apply to Jesus.
Another fact that is often ignored is that Jesus was never named Immanuel, nor did anyone ever address him as Immanuel when he lived. On the contrary, the Messiah was named Jesus (Luke 2:21) by the angel according to the gospels. Also, even if a person is named Immanuel, it doesn't mean that the person so named is God. Consider for example all the people named ELI in the Old Testament. ELI means God in the Hebrew. It is also narrated that Jesus while talking to God referred to Him as ELI (Mark 15:34 & Matthew 27:46). We cannot however on this basis of just name accept all the people named ELI in the Old Testament as Gods. Similarly, we cannot accept a person named Immanuel (God with us) as God. Jesus was never named Immanuel anyway, so both ways the argument and claim are false.
What did Jesus say about GOD?
In Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come; Only GOD knows. Jesus's followers wanted to know when the Judgment day will come.
In John 14:28 "The Father is greater than I."
In John 10:29 "My Father is greater than ALL."
In John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do NOTHING.....I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me." Jesus was sent in this verse by his own admission. In this verse he himself says that the one who is sent: "..... the one who is sent is not greater than the one who sent (John 13:16)."
Thomas is misunderstood in verse John 20:28:
From Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's work; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
It is often claimed that since Thomas referred to Jesus as "My
God, my Lord (John 20:28),"
that Jesus was God. An ignorance of the context of the verse and of Christian doctrine
prompts this claim. The context of the verse talks about an unbelieving Thomas being
surprised when Jesus offers him evidence.
The exclamation, "My God," on his part was just astonishment. We use such exclamations everyday while talking to people. This doesn't mean that the person we are talking to is God. For example, I see John cutting his wrist with a Rambo knife. I say: "My God, John what are you doing?" Do I mean that John is God? Of course not. Similar is the use of the expression by Thomas. If you go into Jewish or Muslim societies even today, you'll hear people exclaim "My God, my Lord," at every situation which surprises them or causes them anguish or is astonishing. In the verse above Thomas says: "My God, my Lord." He was not claiming that Jesus was his (1) God and (2) Lord. If he did then the church and the disciples should have stamped him as a heretic right there and then. Because claiming that Jesus is Lord and God is a violation of Christian doctrine, which asserts that there is One God, the Father and One Lord, Jesus. Jesus can't be God and Lord. "...yet for us there is but one God, the Father...and one Lord, Jesus Christ ...(I Corinthians 8:6)". Believing the above (i.e Jesus is Lord and God) would leave a person with unorthodox doctrine branded by the church as Sabellianism, Patripassianism, Monarchianism.
Jesus saying "I am":
From Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's work; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
It is claimed that Jesus used the words, "I am", and since these same words were used by God to describe Himself to the people in the Old Testament, Jesus was claiming to be God. John 8:58, is presented to back this claim. In the verse, Jesus says: " Before Abraham was I am. (John 8:58)" Now, if Jesus existed before Abraham did, that might be a remarkable thing, but does that prove that he was God?
How many people existed before Abraham? The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb (Jeremiah 1:5), yet no one says that his pre-human existence qualifies him for deity. In Exodus chapter 3, God allegedly says: "I am what I am." Long before the time of Jesus, there existed a Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The key word, "I am," in Exodus which is used by Christians to prove the deity of Jesus is translated as "HO ON." However, when Jesus uses the word in John 8:58 the Greek of the "I am," is EGO EIMI. If Jesus wanted to tell the Jews that he was claiming to be God he should have at least remained consistent in the use of words or the whole point is lost. How many people in that age would have said "I am," in answer to questions in everyday life. Billions. Are they all gods? Of course not !.
Jesus claiming to be the "Alpha and the Omega":
Question : In the Book of Revelation we find the verse, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Revelation 1:8). But what do you do with Revelation 22:13, which appears to be Jesus speaking (see verse 16), when he says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end"? Doesn't the command by Matthew's Jesus to, "Go therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19) show the existence of a triune deity.
Answer: Despite the distinctiveness with which God and Jesus are regarded in the New
Testament some Christians are under the misconception that God and Jesus form two-thirds
of a triune deity. Partial responsibility for this error is due to the New Testament
writers, who use a number of designations for Jesus, which are the same as those given to
God in the Jewish Bible and in the New Testament. The resulting confusion as to whether
certain New Testament passages refer to God or to Jesus helped to produce the belief in a
That Jesus, who is considered by the New Testament writers to be the link between God and creation, is called by some of the same designations that are applied to God is understandable. After all, the New Testament writers believed that God had conferred a tremendous amount of power upon this angelic being, so why not, as well, some of His names, which express certain facets of His being? But it is nevertheless clear that although the God of the New Testament interacts with the world He created solely through His "firstborn" (Colossians 1:15-17), the latter is still subservient to God. Because of the exalted yet subservient position in which they envision Jesus, the New Testament writers do not believe it compromises God's status to apply some of His names to Jesus (cf. Ephesians 1:21, Philippians 2:9, Hebrews 1:4). The use of common names is not intended to indicate that Jesus is of one substance with God.
Perhaps, if "the Alpha and the Omega" in Revelations 22:13 is actually a reference to Jesus it stems from the New Testament belief that the pre-incarnate Jesus was the first thing created by God. What is significant is not so much the use of this name as the fact that whenever the relationship between God and Jesus is treated, the New Testament writers always describe God as superior to Jesus.
In any case, in verse 12 the subject of verse 13 ("the Alpha and the Omega") says he is "coming quickly." Since Jesus has not come "quickly" this is either false prophecy or the text is not speaking about Jesus.
GOD says "Let us create".... in the book of Genesis: (Does "us" mean GOD and Jesus?)
It is unfortunate that Trinitarians try their best to try to prove that Jesus was GOD himself even if the cost is corrupting the real meanings of the Old Testament. In Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic, the word "us" can be used to magnify a person. If a Chief Executive Officer of a company in the Middle East wants to say for instance "I decided to do the following....", then he would say it "We decided to do the following...." even though he would be referring to himself only.
If the word "us" in the book of Genesis is referring to Trinity as Trinitarians believe, then how come people back then were not Trinitarians? How come the concept of Trinity was born 2300 years after the book of Genesis? More than 1/3 of The Holy Quran (The Muslims' Holy Book) talks about Allah Almighty (GOD). Allah Almighty in numerous verses says "We" about himself. Muslims today believe in One GOD and don't believe in Trinity. Jews also believe in One GOD and not in Trinity, even though in their Holy Books such as the Talmud, GOD refers to Himself as "We" and not "I".
My dear friend, you must first study the languages of Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic before you (as a Trinitarian) start corrupting the Old Testament's real meanings. I think this would be a sin !.
Further more regarding GOD using the word "Us" in the Bible:
Question : God said: "Let us make man in our image . .
." (Genesis 1:26) and "Come, let us go down, and there confound their
language" (Genesis 11:7). To whom does the "us" refer?
Answer: Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are prooftexts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" (Genesis 1:27). In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the next verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality. Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" (2 Samuel 16:20). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" (see also Ezra 4:16-19).
Let us look at Exodus 7:1 "Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh and Aaron your brother will become your Prophet." There are two important things in this verse, first Moses was called "like God" and second Moses had a Prophet or Messenger. It is clear from this verse that God in the Bible used glorifying expressions to magnify someone. Of course Moses being called like God doesn't make him a holy person. Moses according to the Bible was a murderer and a sinful person for a period of time, and the God of the Bible still chose to call him "like God", which clearly shows that "God" is only a magnifying title. The only unique title to God is Jehovah in the Bible. Also, it is commonly known that Prophets and Messengers are sent only by Jehovah or Allah Almighty and only belong to him. In Exodus 7:1 we see that Moses not only became "like God", but he also owned a Prophet or Messenger. Of course Moses was never GOD himself. This verse only used an expression to magnify Moses.
Let us also look at 1 Corinthians 8:5 "For even though there are those (people) who are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many gods and many lords." This verse clearly shows us that we must not take the word "god" that is used for a human being as actual God or Jehovah or Allah Almighty.
Let us look at Psalms 82:6 "I myself (Jehovah) have said: You are gods and all of you are sons of the Most High." Here we see that Jehovah or Allah Almighty called other Prophets "Gods" and his "Sons". Does that make them Jehovah himself just because they were called Gods? Of course not.
Let us look at Psalms 82:1 "God is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of gods he judges." Here we see that God will judge his own Gods in the day of judgment. Again, the word "god" is just a magnifying expression when given to people. It doesn't mean the actual GOD himself.
Let us look at Jeremiah 51:57 "And I (Jehovah) will make her Princes and her wise ones, her governors and her deputy rulers and her mighty men drunk...." Here we see that the word "Mighty" was used to magnify men. It is the same word that is used to magnify God. We can clearly see in this verse that the word "Mighty" is just a magnifying expression that is not always used for GOD or Jehovah.
Let us also look at Joshua 6:2 "And Jehovah went on to say to Joshua: See, I have given Jericho and it's king, the valiant mighty men, into your hand." Again, here we see the word "mighty" used for magnifying men and not God.
Let us look at Hebrew 1:3 "He (Jesus) is the reflection of (GOD's) glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places." Of course Jesus was GOD's reflection. Muslims and Christians agree that Jesus was GOD's spirit (but not GOD himself), and GOD's favorite creation. Allah Almighty chose Jesus to be his favorite messenger and he was GOD's favorite creation. Jesus represented GOD very well, and he was GOD's ambassador to his people. Christians often confuse Jesus's favorite place in GOD's heart with GOD himself. Jesus was the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, he had the Majesty place in heaven.
Also again, let us look at John 1:14 "So the word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth." This verse was explained earlier in this page. Here we see that Jesus and GOD are two different entities or beings. Jesus was glorious, GOD's favorite son (creation, not actual biological son as explained earlier in this page), GOD's messenger, but he was never GOD himself.
Let us look at John 1:18 "No man has seen GOD at anytime; the only-begotten GOD who is in the bosom (position) with the Father is the that has explained him." Here we see Jesus telling his followers that no one has seen GOD. This verse also proves that Jesus is not GOD.
Now in Isaiah 9:6 "......Eternal Father,....."
Jesus being called Eternal Father means that he will be the light and the way to his followers. He will bring life to them. He is going to be their leader, and their spiritual guidance. This is all done through the Holy Spirit that was explained earlier.
Let us look at 1 Corinthians 15:22 "For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive." Here we see that Jesus is indeed the Eternal Father (leader) to his people. He is life that never dies to his followers.
Let us look at Romans 6:23 "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift GOD gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." Here again we see Jesus being the everlasting life to his followers. He is their Eternal Father.
Let us look at 1 Corinthians 6:15 "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I, then, take the members of the Christ away and make them members of a harlot? Never may that happen!" Here we see that because Jesus is the "Eternal Father" to his people, they are called members of Christ. Jesus chose to call his followers members of Christ. He was the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords. However, this verse just like all of the above verses proves that Jesus is not Allah Almighty.
VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: Did you know that in the languages of Arabic and Hebrew the father of the house can be called the Lord of the house? Jesus was the Lord (father or leader) of his people and their father. For Jesus being the leader and the king, it is normal for him to be called the father of his people (Father in Isaiah 9:6). My own father is my Lord in the languages of Arabic, Aramaic and Hebrew.
Back to Answering Trinity section.
Send your comments.
Back to Main Page.